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RumbleFish
07-11-2011, 04:59 AM
If you had any ability to do any of the above things you mentioned, you wouldn't have written this idiotic statement.

Welcome to my list of ignored posters.

Proustable
07-11-2011, 05:12 AM
To summarize, I question the integrity of outcomes in ladies and ice dance results and wonder whether Chan's astronomical SP marks had anything to do with them. It is also interesting to note that had Chan been marked reasonably in the SP, Canada might have ended up winning 2 gold medals in Moscow.

This statement confuses me. Chan marked unreasonably in the SP guaranteed Canada one gold medal (according to your argument). How does reasonable (in this case, lower) marks make it more likely Canada wins two?

I'm not quite convinced he was overmarked. You can make the case that his transitions and choreography marks were actually closer to the rest of the field than they should have been and everything was so spot on and fluid that I can see why the judges went to the upper registers for GOEs. He actually had slightly lower PCS for his Worlds SP than his GPF SP.

As for Ando, I'll be frank, I didn't even bother watching her LP (Morosov tends to choreograph better SPs imo). She generally bores me. But I thought her Worlds SP was quite lovely. Maybe it's just the music talking, though.

As for dance, I'd love to agree with you (that V/M were robbed/unfair judging) - I truly would, but I cannot.

RumbleFish
07-11-2011, 05:28 AM
This statement confuses me. Chan marked unreasonably in the SP guaranteed Canada one gold medal (according to your argument). How does reasonable (in this case, lower) marks make it more likely Canada wins two?

I don't want to go into details, as I find this as the ugliest part of figure skating. Since this is nothing new, you might want to review past history. You may agree or disagree, since it is only my hunch with no proof.


I'm not quite convinced he was overmarked. You can make the case that his transitions and choreography marks were actually closer to the rest of the field than they should have been and everything was so spot on and fluid that I can see why the judges went to the upper registers for GOEs. He actually had slightly lower PCS for his Worlds SP than his GPF SP.

IMO, Chan had been over-marked all through last season, not just SP at the Worlds.


As for Ando, I'll be frank, I didn't even bother watching her LP (Morosov tends to choreograph better SPs imo). She generally bores me. But I thought her Worlds SP was quite lovely. Maybe it's just the music talking, though.

The Mission soundtrack is a piece of music that does wonders covering up mediocre skating. No wonder it is one of the most preferred music for juniors and novices skaters at events such as regional and sectional legs of US Nationals.


As for dance, I'd love to agree with you (that V/M were robbed/unfair judging) - I truly would, but I cannot.

Like TripleButz said, V/M might have been lacking polish in their programs. However, D/W were missing the very core essence of ice dancing IMO, and it should have been more than enough to offset whatever lackings V/M might have had.

Jenna
07-11-2011, 05:46 AM
Welcome to my list of ignored posters.

You don't have to twist my arm. :lol:

walei
07-11-2011, 05:57 AM
I think RumbleFish is implying that Skate Canada politiked HARD for Patrick Chan. Had they just let Chan do his stuff and win without the supposed inflated mark through politiks, the judges might give the Gold to V/M?

This is what I'm understanding is from reading RumbleFish's posts, not what I think did happen.

RumbleFish
07-11-2011, 06:14 AM
I think RumbleFish is implying that Skate Canada politiked HARD for Patrick Chan. Had they just let Chan do his stuff and win without the supposed inflated mark through politiks, the judges might give the Gold to V/M?

This is what I'm understanding is from reading RumbleFish's posts, not what I think did happen.

All I'm saying is that Chan and V/M deserved gold and Weaver/Poje the bronze in terms of skating IMO. Kudos to them.

As for why only Chan got the deserved medal? I have a hunch but don't have conviction.

Do people shoot themselves in the foot? Sometimes yes.

Zokko!
07-11-2011, 06:22 AM
Men's 2010 Olympics, Dai :encore: should've been miles ahead over Plushenko and light-years away from that L.-guy .... :yikes: :scream:

Twilight1
07-11-2011, 06:33 AM
The one qualm my husband has always had with ice dance is that the outcome is usually decided before anyone skates. He was in it for several years and protocol judging is still alive and well. D&W skated cleanly and they were slotted to win. The only way they wouldn't have won is if they fell.

ITA that W&P should have been higher up after all was said and done in '11 World's. I don't get the hooplala about the Shib's. I understand about D&W, P&B, V&M but the Shib's do nothing for me. Maybe I am sick of Shpilband's/ Zueva's choreography but feel D&W and V&M rise above the crap they are given but the Shib's aren't quite there yet...not sure. W&P and P&B are such great couples, with a maturity and finesse that the Shib's just don't have yet IMVHO. They are pleasant enough skaters to watch but them getting bronze is beyond my comprehension. I understand that P&B were out due to the fall but still don't get the Shib's winning bronze over W&P.

Jenna
07-11-2011, 06:35 AM
You just used a perfect example to describe what happened with the bronze medal. You said "D&W skated cleanly and they were slotted to win. The only way they wouldn't have won is if they fell." Well, let me tell you, P&B were slated to win bronze. The only way they wouldn't have is if they fell. And, they did.

BTW, IDK how you can assert D/W were slotted to win when V/M won the SD..?

RumbleFish
07-11-2011, 07:15 AM
The one qualm my husband has always had with ice dance is that the outcome is usually decided before anyone skates. He was in it for several years and protocol judging is still alive and well. D&W skated cleanly and they were slotted to win. The only way they wouldn't have won is if they fell.

D/W skated like they had known this IMO. Rather than performing to the audience, they were trying hard to carry out stuff they had prepared and get through it. If we are contempt with status quo of protocol judging, there should be no problem. But I am stating my criticisms since we are discussing whether certain events were well judged or not.


ITA that W&P should have been higher up after all was said and done in '11 World's. I don't get the hooplala about the Shib's. I understand about D&W, P&B, V&M but the Shib's do nothing for me. Maybe I am sick of Shpilband's/ Zueva's choreography but feel D&W and V&M rise above the crap they are given but the Shib's aren't quite there yet...not sure. W&P and P&B are such great couples, with a maturity and finesse that the Shib's just don't have yet IMVHO. They are pleasant enough skaters to watch but them getting bronze is beyond my comprehension. I understand that P&B were out due to the fall but still don't get the Shib's winning bronze over W&P.

I had actually found Shibs' FD quite charming despite their lack of transitions and flow over the ice. In Moscow, however, they didn't skate their programs well at all. Their SD was scratchy and sloppy particularly in the GW section. Their FD totally lacked energy and flow hence should have been marked much lower. Disappointed look on their faces just after they had skated told the story for me.

Weaver and Poje, OTOH, skated as well as they could in both SD and FD. They might not have power and coverage of V/M and D/W yet, but their performances were definitely highlights of 2012 Moscow Worlds for me.

Twilight1
07-11-2011, 07:39 AM
You just used a perfect example to describe what happened with the bronze medal. You said "D&W skated cleanly and they were slotted to win. The only way they wouldn't have won is if they fell." Well, let me tell you, P&B were slated to win bronze. The only way they wouldn't have is if they fell. And, they did.

BTW, IDK how you can assert D/W were slotted to win when V/M won the SD..?

V&M had skated their OD several times in public prior to her surgery (I personally saw it live in September/2010 in Shall We Dance). World's was the 1st place they showed their full FD. The OD is shorter, requires less stamina so it would have been much easier and within reason for V&M to skate better than D&W to win that portion of the competition. Not to mention, V&M are better at compulsories than D&W.

I don't know if P&B were slated for bronze. I truly though a Russian team would slide in there. Notably B&S. I thought the bronze was open. The last team I ever saw there was the Shib's.

RumbleFish
07-11-2011, 08:01 AM
I don't know if P&B were slated for bronze. I truly though a Russian team would slide in there. Notably B&S. I thought the bronze was open. The last team I ever saw there was the Shib's.

Since the event was held in Moscow, I thought Bobrova & Solobiev had a good chance to edge out Pechalat & Bourzat if Bobrova managed to keep her back straight.

Ankka
07-11-2011, 08:10 AM
What is it with Miki that some people just can't accept anything she does? I mean, while she may not be the most flashy skater she does (for me at least) feel the music and interpret it in a subtle way. Also, the Finnish commentator, who has stated many times that she doesn't like her style and feels she's not emotional, actually thought this time she was very expressive and interpretted the music she had. Sometimes to me it seems that we all have difficulties in changing the view on some skaters if we don't like them at first but they make improvements.

Jenna
07-11-2011, 08:10 AM
IDK, I think the scores from the SD (especially the PCS) say it all about who was intended to medal.

Twilight1
07-11-2011, 08:17 AM
I never think things are locked after the 1st program. Maybe back in the 90's, whoever won the CD's won the event. Now, I think they like to change things up so that it looks more like a competition.

2010 Oly's was like that. V&M were not in the top spot after the CD round but they won. D&S (Rus) were in the top spot and edged out B&A for bronze. (Which I didn't agree with...I thought B&A skated fabulous in Vancouver and should have won bronze over D&S)