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kwanette
07-09-2011, 11:36 PM
Even with Plushenko having "shaky landings" it's not like any real technical errors were involved. Certainly not too the point where judges would overlook the fact that in Vancouver he was the only one there he could do a 3A and a 4/3. He was the last skater. No one else came close to what he did on jumps there. Elvis Stojko said they killed figure skating but if they did anything was really kill any future of doing quads. Or if you don't think that is right they took away all motivation for learning them and then putting them in your programs. The worst thing was people saying Takahashi made a horrible terrible error in trying one. That was the worst. Not trying or doing a quad Olympics should be bad not doing one or attempting one. You can blame COP for this but the judges still have lots of power. There was no way the winner of 2010 should have been quadless.

Well, Elvis Stojko was wrong. Ask Patrick Chan.

RockTheTassel
07-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Elvis Stojko said they killed figure skating but if they did anything was really kill any future of doing quads.

Nevermind that the top three men at Worlds this past season all had quads in their programs.

Jenna
07-10-2011, 12:23 AM
Takahashi. Evan also had two errors on both 3A's that were way overlooked by the technical panel. His slow skating, rushed positions, and complete lack of rhythm do not justify PCS scores anywhere near the other top men.

I'll give you the PCS, but both those 3A were rotated.

Jenna
07-10-2011, 12:45 AM
Even with Plushenko having "shaky landings" it's not like any real technical errors were involved. Certainly not too the point where judges would overlook the fact that in Vancouver he was the only one there he could do a 3A and a 4/3. He was the last skater. No one else came close to what he did on jumps there. Elvis Stojko said they killed figure skating but if they did anything was really kill any future of doing quads. Or if you don't think that is right they took away all motivation for learning them and then putting them in your programs. The worst thing was people saying Takahashi made a horrible terrible error in trying one. That was the worst. Not trying or doing a quad Olympics should be bad not doing one or attempting one. You can blame COP for this but the judges still have lots of power. There was no way the winner of 2010 should have been quadless.

They were real "technical errors" though, because they deserved and received -GOEs from the judges. By the way, he wasn't the only one that could do them, just the only one that chose to/was able to. Lysacek, Takahashi, and Lambiel had landed them in previous competitions.

Your assertion that because the 2010 Olympic Champion didn't do a quad, no one else would be "motivated" to try one is ridiculous because this past world championships featured the most quad attempts that I can remember. In the short program, Chan landed one, Oda attemped one but stepped out, Gachinski landed one, Verner fell on an attempt, Joubert fell out of his attempt, Bradley landed his, VDP U/R + fell on his, Reynolds U/R + fell on his. In the FS, Chan landed TWO, Kozuka landed his, Gachinski landed his, Joubert landed his, Brezina landed TWO, Takahashi popped his, Fernandez landed TWO, Bradley landed one, his other one was U/R, Verner's was downgraded, VDP landed his, both of Reynolds' were U/R + fall. That's a whole lot of quads.

blue_idealist
07-10-2011, 12:51 AM
N-K won with "Pink panter" over Denkova-Staviisky Hendel masterpiece FD.

And 2006 ECh in Lion. Audience were so unhappy with N-K gold andDelobel-Shonfelder 4th place

Oh yeah, that one too! (2004) D/S totally should have won, from what I remember (I can't remember the ODs all too well, if I even saw them but I know D/S's FD blew me away).

Triple Butz
07-10-2011, 01:02 AM
I'll give you the PCS, but both those 3A were rotated.

No. They weren't. The closest was the one in the sp, but I would've downgraded that, too.

VIETgrlTerifa
07-10-2011, 01:04 AM
The callers seemed to be much more lenient at the Olympics than the rest of the season.

Triple Butz
07-10-2011, 01:15 AM
The callers seemed to be much more lenient at the Olympics than the rest of the season.

Not universally, though. Takahashi got downgraded and received 'e's. Plushenko's lip went unnoticed and so did Evan's downgrades.

caseyedwards
07-10-2011, 01:48 AM
Well, Elvis Stojko was wrong. Ask Patrick Chan.


Nevermind that the top three men at Worlds this past season all had quads in their programs.




Your assertion that because the 2010 Olympic Champion didn't do a quad, no one else would be "motivated" to try one is ridiculous because this past world championships featured the most quad attempts that I can remember. In the short program, Chan landed one, Oda attemped one but stepped out, Gachinski landed one, Verner fell on an attempt, Joubert fell out of his attempt, Bradley landed his, VDP U/R + fell on his, Reynolds U/R + fell on his. In the FS, Chan landed TWO, Kozuka landed his, Gachinski landed his, Joubert landed his, Brezina landed TWO, Takahashi popped his, Fernanded landed TWO, Bradley landed one, his other one was U/R, Verner's was downgraded, VDP landed his, both of Reynolds' were U/R + fall. That's a whole lot of quads.

Who thinks that if the rules weren't changed for the 2010-2011 season you would have had all the quads that were done? The judges so messed up the 2010 Olympics so bad the types of changes that were done had to be done. How much longer would quads been done if failure meant no points at all? Which is what happened to Takahashi. Or you could do two quad triples like Plushenko and just win silver. If there had been no changes what Stojko said may have been accurate.


They were real "technical errors" though, because they deserved and received -GOEs from the judges. By the way, he wasn't the only one that could do them, just the only one that chose to/was able to. Lysacek, Takahashi, and Lambiel had landed them in previous competitions.

He did get some negative GOE but on the most flawed jump, the first 3A, there was actually positive GOE and I bet it was because it came after the only successfull 4/3 of the whole night.

I don't think previous competitions are relevent. Plushenko was the only one who did those jumps at the Olympics in 2010 in the same programs. And those judges there said it was worth silver.

UGG
07-10-2011, 02:29 AM
Perhaps the results of the Ladies LP at the 2002 Olympics came out ok, but if you look at the actual ordinals...they are very questionable....IMO Sarah should have gotten all first places and MK and Irina should have basically split second and third.

snoopysnake
07-10-2011, 02:55 AM
1994 Olympics

I agree - I think all four disciplines' gold medals went to the wrong people. (Should've been Elvis, Nancy, M/D and T/D.)

Jenna
07-10-2011, 04:28 AM
No. They weren't. The closest was the one in the sp, but I would've downgraded that, too.

Here is a clip of Evan's SP, albeit a poor quality one. How could you say it deserved a downgrade? Going by today's rules, the jump must be cheated by more than 1/2 of a turn to be downgraded. Under-rotated jumps (70% of BV) must be cheated between 1/4 and 1/2 of a rotation, and I don't see evidence for that here either. Can I get any third opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCn4FgGi5M

Here is a clip of his second 3A from his 3A, the first one was much better.

Now going by today's rules, could maybe see a case for an under-rotation call, between 1/4 and 1/2 under-rotated, but definitely not a downgrade, which requires more than 1/2 of a revolution. Again, the quality of this video is quite poor, and nothing can be said with certainty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZxVFxSafuE&feature=related

Cheylana
07-10-2011, 04:38 AM
Not universally, though. Takahashi got downgraded and received 'e's. Plushenko's lip went unnoticed and so did Evan's downgrades.
Takahashi has a very noticeable flutz. Evan got ! for his triple flip. Not sure about Plush.

I don't know whether Evan's triple axels were downgrade-worthy, but it seems like the Olympic callers mostly decided not to downgrade landed jumps (except in a few cases like Rachael's triple flips). I guess they didn't want OGMs being decided on those kinds of close calls, which can be controversial (see the uproar over Mirai at 2010 US Nationals). But if you fell (like Takahashi did on his 4T attempt) the odds of being downgraded went way up.

Another example is Mao's triple axels. She got credit for all of them at the Olympics, but once she got to Worlds the callers got downgrade-happy again.

Sasha'sSpins
07-10-2011, 05:38 AM
When I think of D&S I think of their '03 OD to Baroque music. That to this day is one of my all time favourite OD's ever.


Me, too. It was a masterpiece.

Me three! :D

Triple Butz
07-10-2011, 05:53 AM
Here is a clip of Evan's SP, albeit a poor quality one. How could you say it deserved a downgrade? Going by today's rules, the jump must be cheated by more than 1/2 of a turn to be downgraded. Under-rotated jumps (70% of BV) must be cheated between 1/4 and 1/2 of a rotation, and I don't see evidence for that here either. Can I get any third opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXCn4FgGi5M

Here is a clip of his second 3A from his 3A, the first one was much better.

Now going by today's rules, could maybe see a case for an under-rotation call, between 1/4 and 1/2 under-rotated, but definitely not a downgrade, which requires more than 1/2 of a revolution. Again, the quality of this video is quite poor, and nothing can be said with certainty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZxVFxSafuE&feature=related

1) I cant believe you made me rewatch that dreadful program.

2) This doesn't make any sense? I'm guessing you meant the previous rules before the 2010/2011 season changes in one of your descriptions?? In any case, I'm only going by the rules that were used to judge that competition, where a jump need only be cheated by a quarter turn or more to have a downgrade by obe rotation in base value, accompanied by negative GOE in most cases. Even if you ignore the fact that each "axel" takes off BACKWARDS, there is still a turn on the landing of at least 1/4, and IMO a little more. I would have either called them as salchows (a tad extreme) or 3axel> which, under those rules would mean a reduction to a poor 2a under that system.