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feraina
08-19-2011, 01:56 AM
I'd say you do have very high expectations! I feel sorry for you as I can't imaging how much you have suffered from watch subpar pairs like S/Z and P/T for so many years. As a Chinese fan I apologize for the pain they caused you.

:P

sharonz
08-19-2011, 02:12 AM
Yeah, it wasn't perfect yet, but it did look rather easy for her to get through the program with all the challenging elements. I hope she can work on the landings and flow out of her jumps. Her bubbliness and energy used to remind me of a young Mao. Now her lanky frame and long limbs, and crispness on ice, start to remind me of Yu-na. After all, Yu-na is her idol.


I'm quite worried about her edge jumps. The triple loop looks not having good height. Hope she will not "lose" her loop jump after the puberty. After all, it's just a random training video, nothing can be told until the real competitions.



I wonder if China is not planning on sending any girls to JGP except for Li. There are no Chinese ladies entries in JGP #2 and #3. Is there such a dearth of talent or funds? :(

You probably will not see any Chinese skaters going for JGP #4 because Chinese National Championships will be held through 9/20~9/23. This year's NC is quite special, since it's also the preliminary competition for the Chinese National winter games which is held once 4 years. No skater is going to miss that.

Talking about young ladies, there are 2 new girls(I think both are 1997 girls) are age-eligible for the junior ground this season, Ziquan Zhao and Ying Zhang. At this moment, Zhao looks better. She has all five kinds of triple jumps and 3-3 combo (I'm not sure which kind it is). Since she is listed as the subtitute for JGP #1, I assume she will be sent to two JGP competitons later.

Marco
08-19-2011, 03:39 AM
So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

I think everyone is just waiting for the next Lu Chen but I doubt that would happen unless there are better facilities, coaches and programme that can allow skaters to develop and improve instead of trying to mold them into just another Liu Yan.

Japanfan
08-19-2011, 04:00 AM
No they didn't.

They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.

I think Shen and Zhao have great basics. P/T and Z/Z's are okay as well. I'm sure this will invite many of the Chinese pairs are terrible because he hurls the girl, etc, etc., etc. I just don't fall into that camp at all.

jlai
08-19-2011, 04:36 AM
So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

I think everyone is just waiting for the next Lu Chen but I doubt that would happen unless there are better facilities, coaches and programme that can allow skaters to develop and improve instead of trying to mold them into just another Liu Yan.

I seem to remember Li Changjiang mentioning in an interview that there're just simply not enough kids showing interest in figure skating in China. Translation=not drawing talent. Perhaps one day a second Chen Lu will appear but not for some time.

sharonz
08-19-2011, 05:54 AM
So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

I think everyone is just waiting for the next Lu Chen but I doubt that would happen unless there are better facilities, coaches and programme that can allow skaters to develop and improve instead of trying to mold them into just another Liu Yan.

Marco, I understand your disappointness but don't be too critical to the girls. Honestly, comparing them with the world champion Lu Chen is not fair. These is a long way to go to reach the top.

I think Zijun is doing really great as a 14-years-old girl. Her skating skate is good, spins are absolutely ABOVE the average, presentation is not that decent but she has a good quality and shows well as her age. I especially appreciate her fluence and lightness on ice. She has the elegence, which IMO Liu Yan lacks. However, it's the jump skill that I worried about her. I don't expect her to be the next Lu Chen since the ladies ground is really deep these days, but I DO hope that she at least can stand at top 10 at worlds someday.

shine
08-19-2011, 08:58 AM
Marco, I understand your disappointness but don't be too critical to the girls. Honestly, comparing them with the world champion Lu Chen is not fair. These is a long way to go to reach the top.

I think Zijun is doing really great as a 14-years-old girl. Her skating skate is good, spins are absolutely ABOVE the average, presentation is not that decent but she has a good quality and shows well as her age. I especially appreciate her fluence and lightness on ice. She has the elegence, which IMO Liu Yan lacks. However, it's the jump skill that I worried about her. I don't expect her to be the next Lu Chen since the ladies ground is really deep these days, but I DO hope that she at least can stand at top 10 at worlds someday.
Well frankly I think her basics are pretty good. She strokes with ease and has a wonderful flow over the ice. Her edges are also very good. She definitely has some growing to do in terms of presenting a program or idea, but that will hopefully come with time and better choreography. Regarding her jump technique, I think she definitely needs to clean up some bad habbits (leaning too far forward before picking and slowing down before edge jump takeoff in particular), but I think she has good spring in her toe jumps and that is a very important trait. IMO she already has made strides since end of last season. To say that she has made no improvement is pretty harsh and quite untrue.

Marco
08-19-2011, 09:01 AM
I still love them and am proud of them for what they have accomplished under the circumstances, but I am realistic and don't think we have a girl worthy or hopeful of some sort of Championship medal yet. When was the last time a Chinese lady medalled at a GP? or 4CCs?

I love Li Zijun and hopefully she can one day make top 10 at Worlds.

shine
08-19-2011, 09:04 AM
Besides Bingwa Geng, most of the girls in the Chinese national team are in the 13-14 yrs old range. Even if they are to medal at the GP or 4CC they'll have to wait a couple of years. Maybe you just need to be patient and hope for the best.

Marco
08-19-2011, 10:25 AM
I am sure most of them are even a little younger than they claim to make them eligible for Sochi. :P

I have been patient with Fang Dan, Xu Binshu, and Liu Yan. They are all pleasant skaters but I don't believe they have placed very high internationally. The way Geng Bingwa has turned out so far (and the way Li Zijun and Zhang Kexin had looked) is very similar to their predecessors (Li is probably the most talented along with Xu Binshu). Unless they can have the funding / coaching / choreographing situation sorted out and not just focus on the pairs, I dare say they probably won't deviate much from their predecessors in terms of skating and accomplishments.

RumbleFish
08-19-2011, 12:33 PM
I saw Zijun Li skate at Jr Worlds last season. Her jumps weren't super big, but she had a decent technique aside from the flutz and a nice presence on ice.

More than anything, she is such a pretty girl. :swoon: I think she will be earning hefty beauty PCS marks once she matures.

SamuraiK
08-19-2011, 04:02 PM
When was the last time a Chinese lady medalled at a GP? or 4CCs?

.


The answer for the GP is Lu Chen at NHK in the 97-98 season and for 4CCs is never:(

;)

Lainerb
08-19-2011, 07:11 PM
I am not going to hold my breath, but it seems as though China has the most potential talent in ladies since Chen Lu. I dare say some of the qualities of Geng, Zijun and Xu(when she competed) are actually better than Chen's.

feraina
08-19-2011, 08:18 PM
I am not going to hold my breath, but it seems as though China has the most potential talent in ladies since Chen Lu. I dare say some of the qualities of Geng, Zijun and Xu(when she competed) are actually better than Chen's.

Well, for sure they all have better spins. But spins didn't matter as much back then either.

TV version of Zijun's Artistry on Ice performance in Shanghai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjBCjSdvXs4

Her 3S here is much better than in the practice video. Her skating skills have really improved -- she's using her edges much more, and gliding across ice with much more power and ease.

Also found Zhang/Zhang's performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI3Y_94EkKY&feature=related

The SBS 3T is nice, I wonder if they will do one like that in their competitive program(s) this season. They have a softer line, and maybe better connection, than before. But the throw and twist don't look as effortless or big as before. Obviously those are the elements they worked least on, and also most affected by her height growth. She really doe slook awfully tall in that video...

Ziggy
08-20-2011, 05:29 AM
P/T and Z/Z's are okay as well.

:huh:

Edges. Posture. Lines. etc.

Whilst P/T are kind of bearable at times and have improved a lot (although they are nowhere near S/S, obviously), Z/Z are truckdriver central (not surprised that judges totally dumped them on PCS in the Olympic season).


So many talented girls have come and gone in the past 13 or so years but they never really reached their potential. China really needs to revisit their ladies programme. Whether or not they had the jumps, they always had poor carriage and posture, shallow edges, laboured skating, below-average spins, not much idea about presentation and absolutely no wow factor. I absolutely loath their forward crossovers and the way they all stalk their jumps. The 3 girls they sent to US didn't improve much (yet) in terms of skating, which was disappointing.

But that goes for all Chinese skating. Pairs and Men have the same problem.

They either can't teach the basics or don't focus on them enough or both.

Zijun Li's basics aren't that bad though. Same goes for Han Yan. His basic skating is actually really decent.