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Marco
08-17-2011, 09:10 AM
China losing that 3rd spot at Worlds has got to be a wake up call for the Fed about the disconnect between the 3 great pairs and the up and comers. I am sure they are doing all they can to maximise S&H's competitive experience, accomplishments, ISU points / ranking, judges impression, prize money, training opportunities and so forth to allow them to be the next great hope for China, or at least for the time being, a team good enough to support either P&T or Z&Z should one of them get injured or retire from now til Sochi.

If S&H can physically cope, I think this is a good strategy. China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all. Yet they need to shoot to the podium right away if they want to contend for a medal at Sochi and there are only 2 more Worlds before then. The only way to fast track this team is to let them accumulate medals and titles.

If Z&Z fully recover, I totally believe the 2 teams going to Worlds this season will be Z&Z and S&H. S&H will probably also go to every single 4CCs from now til Sochi. P&T can rest until the Sochi season.

feraina
08-17-2011, 07:33 PM
China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all.

They are not great skaters yet, of course, not compared to the top senior pairs that skate with polish and solid technique. But for such a young pair, they are very good. What other pair of similar age/experience has been doing as well or better in recent memory?

Ziggy
08-17-2011, 11:06 PM
Sui/Han have some glaring weaknesses but also some extremely strong points. I would say they are not well-rounded skaters (and with Chinese coaching they might never become them).

As for Dan Zhang, sorry but you don't grow any more at the age of 25!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but don't humans generally stop to grow at 21?

feraina
08-18-2011, 12:25 AM
As for Dan Zhang, sorry but you don't grow any more at the age of 25!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but don't humans generally stop to grow at 21?

Well, I finished growing in height at 14, or so I thought. Then I grew an 1.25 inches between 28 and 30. Obviously Dan Zhang is a bit unusual, but... I guess sometimes weird things just happen!

Stephanie
08-18-2011, 01:51 AM
I remember reading that US gymnast Kathy Johnson grew about 2 inches after she quit the sport at 24. I think this was at least partially attributed to the fact that she had an ED during her career which effectively stunted/delayed her growth.

A combination of not eating enough (not saying Dan Zhang had/has an ED but she definitely is insanely skinny) and working out so much could have had the same effect on Zhang and then when she had a bit of a break due to them not competing, she could have grown.

Macassar88
08-18-2011, 02:57 AM
It's not just gymnasts with an eating disorder. I think it's the change from the intense training to light training or no training.

Japanfan
08-18-2011, 07:12 AM
If S&H can physically cope, I think this is a good strategy. China doesn't have the time to let them grow slowly and to be frank, they are not very good skaters at all. Yet they need to shoot to the podium right away if they want to contend for a medal at Sochi and there are only 2 more Worlds before then. The only way to fast track this team is to let them accumulate medals and titles.


It is unreasonable to expect them to medal at Sochi, they are still essentially juniors. They want to retain the distinction they earned last season as a promising pair and keep improving.

Although they have a lot of work to do, they have the 'wow' factor, which isn't something that can be taught. The skating skills will get better with time and one thing about the Chinese pairs is that they are willing to work very, very hard.

Japanfan
08-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Sui/Han have some glaring weaknesses but also some extremely strong points. I would say they are not well-rounded skaters (and with Chinese coaching they might never become them).


IMO this post does a huge disservice to the Chinese pairs.

China has produced the current pair Olympic champions and silver medalists, the 2006 silver medalists, and the 2002 and 2006 Olympic bronze medalists. Add to that the number of world titles, world medals, and GP accomplishments earned by just three Chinese pair teams. Pretty impressive, especially considering that China had no tradition in pairs whatsoever when Bin Yao started his program.

To reach this level all three teams had to work on their weaknesses. Shen and Zhao and Pang and Tong became quite well-rounded pairs. Zhangs are still working on it, but there is room for them to grow.

Most pair teams have strengths and weaknesses, few are the perfect package.

Marco
08-18-2011, 08:55 AM
It is unreasonable to expect them to medal at Sochi, they are still essentially juniors. They want to retain the distinction they earned last season as a promising pair and keep improving.

Although they have a lot of work to do, they have the 'wow' factor, which isn't something that can be taught. The skating skills will get better with time and one thing about the Chinese pairs is that they are willing to work very, very hard.

I don't expect them to medal at Sochi, but I bet the Chinese Fed does.

sharonz
08-18-2011, 04:17 PM
Back to the ladies, here is Zijun Li's training video of her LP.
http://www.56.com/u12/v_NjI0MTI1MDU.html

Apparently, she will include 3F3T and 2A3T in her new program.
The music is from "Scenes of Summer" by Lee Holdridge, choreographed by David Wilson.

ainouta
08-18-2011, 05:15 PM
Back to the ladies, here is Zijun Li's training video of her LP.
http://www.56.com/u12/v_NjI0MTI1MDU.html

Apparently, she will include 3F3T and 2A3T in her new program.
The music is from "Scenes of Summer" by Lee Holdridge, choreographed by David Wilson.

She is looking very strong!

Ziggy
08-18-2011, 11:31 PM
Zijun Li is improving very nicely. Hopefully she can survive the growth spurt.


To reach this level all three teams had to work on their weaknesses. Shen and Zhao and Pang and Tong became quite well-rounded pairs.

No they didn't.

They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.

kwanfan1818
08-18-2011, 11:40 PM
Li's energy was very consistent throughout that program -- very impressive. The 2A going into the 3T had wonderful coverage in the air and the combo had fine timing.

feraina
08-19-2011, 12:34 AM
Li's energy was very consistent throughout that program -- very impressive. The 2A going into the 3T had wonderful coverage in the air and the combo had fine timing.

Yeah, it wasn't perfect yet, but it did look rather easy for her to get through the program with all the challenging elements. I hope she can work on the landings and flow out of her jumps. Her bubbliness and energy used to remind me of a young Mao. Now her lanky frame and long limbs, and crispness on ice, start to remind me of Yu-na. After all, Yu-na is her idol.

I'm really looking forward to seeing her with all the other up and coming young ladies at the first JGP. Julia Lipnitskaya will be very exciting to watch, too!

I wonder if China is not planning on sending any girls to JGP except for Li. There are no Chinese ladies entries in JGP #2 and #3. Is there such a dearth of talent or funds? :(

skatingfanfun
08-19-2011, 01:29 AM
Zijun Li is improving very nicely. Hopefully she can survive the growth spurt.



No they didn't.

They have improved their weaknesses somewhat but they are/were still miles away from being what you could call well-rounded because of the basics and program construction being so weak.

Having said that, yes there are very few teams that you could say that about. But when you're at the very top, the expectations are really high.

I'd say you do have very high expectations! I feel sorry for you as I can't imaging how much you have suffered from watch subpar pairs like S/Z and P/T for so many years. As a Chinese fan I apologize for the pain they caused you.