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sharonz
08-16-2011, 04:39 AM
I don't think the top men skaters, Nan Song or Han Yan, got any perks like that, nor the top ice dance teams.


one correction. Top ice dance teams DO have their choreography oversea. Both team HZ and YW got their programs set in the States last season, and will have new programs there,too.

The only unfavorite discipline is MEN single team, even they have the most promising future star - Han Yan. He hasn't got any chance go abroad, or involved in any international shows. :blah:

Japanfan
08-16-2011, 07:25 AM
If you think about it, it is a total conflict of interest for one of the national team coaches to be the administrative head of the entire team. There should be a separation of responsibilities. Someone not affiliated with any particular athlete or coaching team ought to be on top, making objective decisions about whom to send to which competitions.

I'm not saying this is all Bin Yao's fault or anything. But Chinese Skating needs to have an independent administrative body with no ties to any particular athlete or coach. Then not only will there be more fairness in the distribution of funds, assignments, ice time, and so on, but also a better system for holding coaches and athletes accountable for personal integrity, like truthful reporting of age.

Feraina, you say there is conflict between Bin Yao's dual roles and indicate that his bias for his own skaters does not serve the interests of the team in that he is holding S/H back. As you've read the interview, you have more insight than many of us. That Bin Yao has favourites is nothing new - it's always been said that he favors Z/Z over P/T. But I'm a bit surprised that he wouldn't be promoting S/H. They are by far the most promising of the young Chinese pairs and I distinctly remember both he and Luan being named as their coaches at a competition last season. I think he was at the boards with them as well?

I have know idea what happened there, but it made sense that he would get involved with S/H to maintain strength in the Chinese pairs field. Are any of his pairs anywhere near close to S/H's level? Or is he worried that they will surpass Z/Z?

julieann
08-16-2011, 07:50 AM
julieann,maybe you Love Bin Yao,and don't want to see anything agaist him.

:rofl: No, I don't "love" him...but I don't have a blind hatred for him either. I just don't see how S/H have been keep down by him; if anything they have been given many more opportunities than other junior teams, and rightly so.


Actually, it was. I didn't translate it quite accurately. It literally says at the beginning of the article, "According to the National Figure Skating Team Head Coach Bin Yao...". Luan is a coach under him, just as the other coaches for the team, even if Luan coaches physically at a Harbin center not in Beijing.

Actually, that may be the problem, I wish the reporter had asked specifically about S/H and if he had blown them off then it would have been a little more suspicious but if their names were never mentioned, is he obligated to mention every skater every time he is interviewed? I know when the head of the Russian Federation is interviewed he doesn't mentioned every skater in Russia, not even half of them.


I wish S/H would have the chance of doing 2 GP's without the exhaustion and time demands of JGP's -- even if JGP's finish before the GP's, they could've used that time to train on their technique and skating skills and refining details of the programs instead.

Doing 7 or 8 competitions in a season is not taxing on skaters, it's pretty normal. It's what they did last year and it's what most senior skaters do.


One might also wonder if Dan Zhang has grown taller still/fuller-figured, or if Hao Zhang will totally regain competitive fitness after a year off.

:confused: Dan Zhang is 25, she has been done growing for a while. They have been skating the whole time to stay on shape, they just couldn't do throws and split twists.


But anyway, I don't want to set it up to be S/H against Z/Z. I root for both teams. I'm just upset that the Chinese federation so much disfavors S/H and they might not be given as much opportunity and nurturing as they deserve.

There is nothing wrong with liking both, they are both very different teams and great teams to like, it's healthy competition that will make of them both stronger. But I fail to see how you feel S/H are somehow being kept down; they have more opportunities that most juniors and seniors for that matter. If they don't happen to make the Senior GPF they can go to the JRGPF. Not to mention all the shows they have done this summer to get experience and exposure.

If she doesn't grow, they will be great.

sandra_persch
08-16-2011, 06:41 PM
Sui / Han have been added to Cup of China

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2775

feraina
08-16-2011, 09:05 PM
:rofl: No, I don't "love" him...but I don't have a blind hatred for him either. I just don't see how S/H have been keep down by him; if anything they have been given many more opportunities than other junior teams, and rightly so.

For the skaters' sake, I hope you are right! I'll give you this at least: at Chinese national championships, judges have not been favoring Yao Bin's teams over the others. Luan's teams won gold and silver last year over Yao Bin's older teams (Z/W, D/W) that he's been coaching and promoting for a while. But this is the first year that Luan's teams (S/H, Y/J) will be in direct competition with Yao Bin's teams for a spot on the Worlds team. So we'll see if domestic judging continues to be fair.


I wish the reporter had asked specifically about S/H and if he had blown them off then it would have been a little more suspicious but if their names were never mentioned, is he obligated to mention every skater every time he is interviewed?

Well, he was asked about S/H in the past. He was always very "conservative" in his replies, saying they are still young, much remains to be seen, etc. He has been slightly more positive about Zijun Li when asked directly interviews, although also not effusive -- I don't think it's in his personality to be effusive.


:confused: Dan Zhang is 25, she has been done growing for a while. They have been skating the whole time to stay on shape, they just couldn't do throws and split twists.

Actually, Dan is one of the skaters implicated in the age controversy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Dan

Even if she is really 25 that's no guarantee that she won't fill out more. Look how Sasha at 26 has filled out over the past year.

But anyway, politics aside, I'm actually excited to see Z/Z back on ice this season. They were pushing the technical standards in pairs skating -- doing SBS 2A-3T and trying quad throws not so long ago. If they can add more expression, connection, and maturity to their skating, they could be a really awesome team. There is definitely a lot of potential there.

feraina
08-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Sui / Han have been added to Cup of China

:rollin:

feraina
08-16-2011, 09:17 PM
They are by far the most promising of the young Chinese pairs and I distinctly remember both he and Luan being named as their coaches at a competition last season. I think he was at the boards with them as well?

I'm afraid that's just not the case. S/H have always trained with Luan in Harbin. They actually only teamed up in 2007, and never had pairs experience before that. So what they have managed to achieve with Luan in four short years is truly phenomenal.

Some people thought that after their first successful year on the JGP, S/H might be transferred over to Beijing to be coached by Yao. Not that they wouldn't get good coaching from Yao, but I'd feel bad about Luan. Instead, the Chinese federation gave Luan a little more funding and resources, as well as an assistant coach. She has 7 or 8 young pairs or something, and the top four junior pairs in the country. So she obviously has some skill/talent in developing young pairs. I'm glad that the federation has been smart enough to see that. But again, this is the first year she and Yao have directly competing teams, so the politics may get uglier still. Let's see...

To me, not picking S/H for CoC to begin with, and requesting they be given only 1 GP and sending them off to JGP's again, seemed like a sign that things are indeed moving not in S/H's favor. But I really hope I'm wrong. And I'm really thrilled to see that they got CoC after all. :swoon:

julieann
08-16-2011, 10:41 PM
Well, he was asked about S/H in the past. He was always very "conservative" in his replies, saying they are still young, much remains to be seen, etc. He has been slightly more positive about Zijun Li when asked directly interviews, although also not effusive -- I don't think it's in his personality to be effusive.

Maybe he is being conservative in his interviews to see if they are even a pair in a couple of years. If she even grows a few inches she will out grow him, he is already rather short for a pairs man at 5'7" and I'm not sure he will grow taller. Most men don't after the age of 19.


Actually, Dan is one of the skaters implicated in the age controversy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Dan

Even if she is really 25 that's no guarantee that she won't fill out more. Look how Sasha at 26 has filled out over the past year.

Even if she is 23, she won't grow any taller, and getting fatter is something that can happen to any skater. At any rate it hasn't happened to her, I seen the video. Both of them look at though they are the same size as of May of 2010.


I'm actually excited to see Z/Z back on ice this season. They were pushing the technical standards in pairs skating -- doing SBS 2A-3T and trying quad throws not so long ago. If they can add more expression, connection, and maturity to their skating, they could be a really awesome team. There is definitely a lot of potential there.

I agree, after all this is a sport and I love seeing teams pushing themselves. Doing throw quads and 2A+3T, it is very exciting; I hope they can land them, but at least they are one of the few teams trying.


To me, not picking S/H for CoC to begin with, and requesting they be given only 1 GP and sending them off to JGP's again, seemed like a sign that things are indeed moving not in S/H's favor. But I really hope I'm wrong. And I'm really thrilled to see that they got CoC after all. :swoon:

There is no reason considering their age, that they shouldn't still be in juniors. Many teams did both juniors and seniors in the same year and no one had a problem with it. Until they age out they should take as much advantage as they can. Get as many points, money, medals and experience as they can. No one should rob them of that.

feraina
08-17-2011, 01:41 AM
Even if she is 23, she won't grow any taller, and getting fatter is something that can happen to any skater. At any rate it hasn't happened to her, I seen the video. Both of them look at though they are the same size as of May of 2010.

I don't want to beat this horse to death, but Hao Zhang just said in an interview published yesterday that Dan Zhang grew a lot in height last season, to 1.68 m, to become the tallest female pairs skater in the world, and that by now she has grown to be 1.695 m, "almost as tall as myself."

Obviously he's exaggerating a little, since he's 1.83 m. But Dan's height is definitely a "growing" issue.

http://sports.cn.yahoo.com/ypen/20110815/529998.html

feraina
08-17-2011, 01:52 AM
Let me translate a little more for Z/Z's fans. Among things he said:
-- last season they had two programs choreographed by Lori Nichols, and although they were not used in competition, they have decided to change the FS. The SP is the same music ("Vampire"? I don't know what piece they are referring to) as last season, but the elements have been changed around a lot to cope with new rule changes.
-- The new FS is "Death Dance" (?), and he says it's a very unusual program, and it has been a smooth process getting the choreography developed
-- Because of all the Artistry on Ice's performances, they have yet to run through the program once with elements. Now they are focused on getting everything in place, including hard elements like lifts and throws
-- After not competing for a year, he feels like they have to start from scratch, and cannot predict competitive results. Plus Dan grew in height, so pairs moves are not as easy as they used to be. Also, Hao has accumulated a number of big and small health issues, including shoulders and cervical vertebra, especially the latter, which is now prone to dislocation and has to be treated every day.
-- He said pressure is self-created. They plan to approach the new season with a relaxed attitude, and will try to showcase their best at every competition.

kwanfan1818
08-17-2011, 04:07 AM
After a JGP run, Sui/Han will have two GP's in a row, on different continents. I hope their routing from Toronto to Shanghai is humane.

julieann
08-17-2011, 04:25 AM
I don't want to beat this horse to death, but Hao Zhang just said in an interview published yesterday that Dan Zhang grew a lot in height last season, to 1.68 m, to become the tallest female pairs skater in the world, and that by now she has grown to be 1.695 m, "almost as tall as myself."

Obviously he's exaggerating a little, since he's 1.83 m. But Dan's height is definitely a "growing" issue.

http://sports.cn.yahoo.com/ypen/20110815/529998.html

I have a feeling he is exaggerating a lot, if she is still growing a the ripe old age of 25... a few things are happening; she is MUCH younger than they are claiming, she is a freak of nature or they are going to have a ton of trouble skating together with only a few inches between them. I hope not, it didn't look like it.


After a JGP run, Sui/Han will have two GP's in a row, on different continents. I hope their routing from Toronto to Shanghai is humane.

Many skaters have done continent hopping for years; I/M did Canada to China last year, it's nothing new.

Stephanie
08-17-2011, 06:27 AM
L
-- The new FS is "Death Dance" (?), and he says it's a very unusual program, and it has been a smooth process getting the choreography developed


Danse Macabre, maybe?

feraina
08-17-2011, 07:28 AM
Danse Macabre, maybe?

Oh, right, maybe!

kwanfan1818
08-17-2011, 08:14 AM
Many skaters have done continent hopping for years; I/M did Canada to China last year, it's nothing new.
Most don't do it after JGP, at which they skate a different version of their FS.


Danse Macabre, maybe?
Or Totentanz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFN-pQ8Wkw