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haribobo
09-26-2011, 06:05 PM
The ISU should have just kept host picks open (no min) or allow one of the domestic host picks to not need to meet the GP minimums.

I half-think this might be one of their "oops, yea that's what we meant but we forgot to put it in there" laws. I guess we'll see sooner or later. :/

kwanfan1818
09-26-2011, 06:19 PM
So Balde can't go, but he can be replaced with someone worse. :confused:
Yes.


Or is it possible that someones else pulls out at the last moment and Balde can take that position.:shuffle:
That's an interesting question: a skater/team can't be assigned another event after having withdrawn from at least one assignment, but:

1. It wouldn't be another assignment, it would be the same assignment
2. He wouldn't have withdrawn: the ISU would have withdrawn him for not meeting the requirements.

I know that's pushing it, but it's not like the ISU released a consistent and coherent document; it looks like they didn't even proofread the one they released.


So, if we are interpreting the GP rules correctly, Skate Canada could have just assigned Jeremy Ten to SC, then have him WD due to injury, and then sub in Balde.
That would have been a smart move, unless there was a Joanne Macleod wrench to throw into the works.


The ISU should have just kept host picks open (no min) or allow one of the domestic host picks to not need to meet the GP minimums.
Really: This.

oubik
09-26-2011, 08:45 PM
Is that for the initial selection only, or for the selection for the entire season? Does it include host picks? For example, I'm not sure all of the "split couples" were formed and submitted by a June deadline. There's a provision for host picks that says to qualify for one, the skater had to be top 75 or meet the minimum score. (For Ladies, there are six skaters who met minimum but aren't top 75.) Also if a skater wanted to make a comeback after the deadline, would they be out? (I thought Plushenko wasn't reinstated until the end of June, and I vaguely remember in an interview or news article, something was said about him not being ready for CoR because of an existing injury.)

The alternates wording states that anyone who won one of the senior B qualifying conditions would be added to the alternates list, and it is possible, although not likely, that someone who wasn't submitted by June would win one of these events. If a skater/team can be on the alternates list without having been on the June list by winning a senior B, if a Junior withdrew from JGP altogether before the start of GP, would they be able to be added to the alternates like or be a host pick?

Like everything else in the documentation, there are some contradictions and things that aren't clear.

Difficult to answer, I am not an ISU lawyer :lol:

But generally I do not remember situation from the past that anybody WD from JGP finally found himself/themselves on the GP.

I think itīs working this way:

After the end of the season, all federations recieving files (for each disciplines) with Top 12 from WC, Top 24 WS and Top 75 SBs. There is a deadline date for which each federation has to submit if each of the skaters/pairs/dancers on those files are willing to skate at GP and/or staying Juniors + also having to inform ISU of splitting/retiring skaters/pairs/dancers (from the whole World Standings lists - I am sure most federations are still waiting for final decisions of the skaters and do not hurrying too much with official announcement - as I have learned from our federation in Matej Novakīs case) + also info on come back skaters if any.

I think that after the submission from each and every federation ISU is preparing the draft list for intial GP meeting where the host countries are picking their invitees. All the others (+ those who were not invited for two GPs) are going to the alternative lists.

To have a late entry into those GP alt. lists I presume the only possibilities are:
- either won one of those B+ internationals
- being a part of split couple
- being a home substitute entry.

So, theoretically, if Ira Vannut did not skate at JGP at all and winning the CoN of IC Graz later, she should be added, but if she was crossed by her federation within the initial information provided to ISU (or picked up to skate JGP back in June) there is no way for her to be entered back (thatīs how I feel how it works).

It was one year (and maybe Ziggy would remember) where the polish ID team of Moscicki and (whomever he was skating with that year) were invited to the GP (I think by Japan? somewhere in the middle of August) even planning on JGP and later GP management did realise the omission of the organizers and changed the nomination (I think for Mysliveckova/Novak that year).

oubik
09-26-2011, 08:51 PM
The ISU should have just kept host picks open (no min) or allow one of the domestic host picks to not need to meet the GP minimums.

Well, I do not agree. GPs are the ISU events which are the only other posibility for SB list (except of Champs and JGP), so why would the bad host pick skater should be invited instead of 13th at last year Worlds only because he/she/them are not from the 6 OC countries?

If the serie is the elite serie (how is ISU still talking about it and made the changes this season), then it should accommodate the best of the best and do not the best from the host who survive and is still skating ...

kirkbiggestfan
09-26-2011, 09:08 PM
Well, I do not agree. GPs are the ISU events which are the only other posibility for SB list (except of Champs and JGP), so why would the bad host pick skater should be invited instead of 13th at last year Worlds only because he/she/them are not from the 6 OC countries?

If the serie is the elite serie (how is ISU still talking about it and made the changes this season), then it should accommodate the best of the best and do not the best from the host who survive and is still skating ...

I know it may be awful to get to see 3 Chinese ice dance teams or 3 French ladies, but GP organizers have always have the right to have 3 local roster spots. It just make economic, nationalistic sense. Local sponsors or ticket payers expect a minimum number of local skaters. Balde is a fine and entertaining skater. The rule changes are ridiculous.

Ziggy
09-27-2011, 12:23 AM
I know it may be awful to get to see 3 Chinese ice dance teams or 3 French ladies, but GP organizers have always have the right to have 3 local roster spots. It just make economic, nationalistic sense. Local sponsors or ticket payers expect a minimum number of local skaters. Balde is a fine and entertaining skater. The rule changes are ridiculous.

The problem is that 3 out of 10 and definitely 3 out of 8 is A LOT.

2 host picks would be enough, given the reduction in entries.

kwanfan1818
09-27-2011, 01:00 AM
Difficult to answer, I am not an ISU lawyer :lol:

If I were an ISU lawyer, I would be ripping my organization a new one for releasing that document, and if I had reviewed and approved it, I'd be trying to hide my drug problem.


The problem is that 3 out of 10 and definitely 3 out of 8 is A LOT.

2 host picks would be enough, given the reduction in entries.

I think this is a legitimate point, but it takes away some of the incentive to host the thing in the first place and pay for all of the transport and housing. I like HisWeirness' suggestion that two of the three should meet the qualification standards, and one should be a freebie to the host org for putting it on.

Ziggy
09-27-2011, 01:02 AM
If I were an ISU lawyer, I would be ripping my organization a new one for releasing that document, and if I had reviewed and approved it, I'd be trying to hide my drug problem.

:respec:

Honestly, that GP document looks like that experiment with monkeys randomly hitting at a typewriter. :scream:

Stephanie
10-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Not a surprise, but Lepisto was crossed off of the list for Trophee Bompard today. I believe either Joshi Helgesson or Sofia Biryukova would be the next in line? My hope is that Biryukova gets it.

kwanfan1818
10-03-2011, 06:47 PM
If they're giving top 24 WS a second before assigning any others, then Joshi Helgesson gets it. If they're not, then the French Fed gets to choose among Biryukova, Samson* (if she's in)/Meite (if Samson's out), or Meite (if Samson's in)/Joshi Helgesson (if Samson's out).

If Biryukova, Samson, or Meite is chosen (and Meite doesn't replace a TBD), then they're not giving a second automatically to top 24. If Samson is out of the running and Joshi Helgesson is picked, she could have been picked under either scenario.

The French Fed could assign Meite to one of the TBD's if they want.


*Samson is still listed on the Skate Canada national team, but wasn't given any assignments in the initial picks, and she wasn't chosen for Skate Canada.

icellist
10-04-2011, 08:12 PM
Sadly, Laura Lepisto was crossed off of the TEB roster today. Who gets her spot now? the other Helgesson (not to be rude, i forgot which one already has two), Myriane Samson, Sofia Biryukova, or Min Jeong Kwak?

pinky166
10-04-2011, 08:21 PM
If they're giving top 24 WS a second before assigning any others, then Joshi Helgesson gets it. If they're not, then the French Fed gets to choose among Biryukova, Samson* (if she's in)/Meite (if Samson's out), or Meite (if Samson's in)/Joshi Helgesson (if Samson's out).

If Biryukova, Samson, or Meite is chosen (and Meite doesn't replace a TBD), then they're not giving a second automatically to top 24. If Samson is out of the running and Joshi Helgesson is picked, she could have been picked under either scenario.

The French Fed could assign Meite to one of the TBD's if they want.


*Samson is still listed on the Skate Canada national team, but wasn't given any assignments in the initial picks, and she wasn't chosen for Skate Canada.

What about Kwak who doesn't have 1 assignment yet and is 37? something around there on the SB list? I know her WS isn't that high but she did do well at 4CC last season and won bronze at the Asian Winter Games.

kwanfan1818
10-04-2011, 08:21 PM
It depends on:

1. Whether they're giving those with top 24 WS (but not top 24 SB) a second before going to the top 75 list. If they do, then Joshi Helgesson should be offered it. Imai, Marchei, and V. Helgesson already have two.

2. Whether Samson, who is still listed on the Skate Canada national team is in the mix.

If they're choosing from the top 75 list, the host gets to choose one of the top three without two events from the 25-75 SB list, since all 75 met the GP minimum.

The 25-75 skaters without two and seniors are:

Biryukova (who has RC the week after)
Samson
Meite (who has NHK the week before)
J. Helgesson
Kwak
La Fuente
Geng
Suguri


What about Kwak who doesn't have 1 assignment yet and is 37? something around there on the SB list? I know her WS isn't that high but she did do well at 4CC last season and won bronze at the Asian Winter Games.
If they give all the top 24 WS people a second before going to the Top 75, then Joshi Helgesson will get it. Then, if Samson is in the mix, she'd replace the first to be picked from the top 3, and if Samson is not in the mix, she'd be top three. That doesn't guarantee that the French Fed will pick her, and there's no rule that says that the original top three must all get spots before the people who replace them from lower in the list.

If they go straight to top 75, Kwak is either 4th on the list or 5th on the top 75 list, depending on Samson's status. She would be, at best, added to the top three of the top 75 group after the first was chosen. However, Meite might turn down TEB because of the travel involved between Paris and Japan. Paris to Moscow flight times are no worse than LA to Toronto, and there are skaters with both SA and SC, so I doubt there would be a concern with Biryukova's schedule.

fan
10-04-2011, 09:00 PM
i just tweeted skate can to see if samson is still competing - they've never answered my tweets before, but there's a first time for everything.

millipied
10-04-2011, 11:41 PM
M/K may be withdrawing from both assignments due to Khaliavin's illness.