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kwanfan1818
09-02-2011, 07:01 PM
Dube/Wolfe are at the top of the list as a split couple.

There's no provision for going back to the top of the list, although one may be implied by the wording that says if anyone in the top 24 SB or top 24 WS doesn't have two, after comeback and split couples, it is a priority to give them two before going to the top 75 list.

There are only two ways a top 24 WS or top 24 SB skater/team could have zero in the initial selection: 1. there weren't enough spots to give every guaranteed couple a spot, if mathematically possible, not probable given the number of spots this year or 2. a change to the WS list.

Split couples are not expected to get a second assignment through the alternates list, unless, I suppose, they run out of alternates. If they're from a host nation, they could possibly replace a host entry.

oubik
09-02-2011, 08:02 PM
Qinying Zhu missed the minimum score at 4C's last year (102.38 vs. 117.48 minimum) and was ranked 111 on the SB list. She's going to have to up her best by almost 15% to qualify.

Zhu has also skated at Asian Trophy in August but even there she wasn´t succefull with the minimum score (was 4th with 112,26 p.), however Wang Jialei passed the score with her 123,60 result (2nd place).

Also, you have asked about the status of Heekin-Canedy - Shakalov of the alternate Ice Dance list, the team split after the Worlds, he quit and she is skating for Ukraine with Dmitry Dun (formerly good junior skating with Agafinova who is now representing Turkey with Alper Ucar).

kwanfan1818
09-03-2011, 04:18 AM
Zhu has also skated at Asian Trophy in August but even there she wasn´t succefull with the minimum score (was 4th with 112,26 p.), however Wang Jialei passed the score with her 123,60 result (2nd place).
Thank you -- the ISU hasn't updated her bio with the Asian Trophy results.

Looking at the protocols, it looks like she fell on a (<) 3F in the SP, and in the LP got a (<<) on the 3F in the attempted 2T combo, and more negative GOE on the 2A/2T/2Lo combo, a 3T, and on a 2S. The only loop attempt was the 2Lo at the end of the combination. Still, she was almost 10 points above her SB from last season, and she needs another 5.18 points to qualify. If she could rotate the 3F and stay on her feet once, she'd be most of the way there.


Also, you have asked about the status of Heekin-Canedy - Shakalov of the alternate Ice Dance list, the team split after the Worlds, he quit and she is skating for Ukraine with Dmitry Dun (formerly good junior skating with Agafinova who is now representing Turkey with Alper Ucar).
For some reason I thought they split and got back together, but thank you for the info!

SamuraiK
09-03-2011, 04:20 AM
So the next 3 men on the alternate list should be KVDP, Preaubert, and Majorov. Next 3 ladies remain the same (Helgesson sisters and Biryukova, followed by Vannut, Meite, and Kwak). Pairs should be among Lawrence/Swiegers, Gerboldt/Enbert, Castelli/Shnapir, Zhang/Wang, Dube/Wolfe, and Marley/Brubaker. Dance has Lichtman/Copely, Gorshkova/Butikov, Coomes/Buckland, and Ralph/Hill. Do Chock/Bates get a 2nd assignment before or after those others, or do they now go to the bottom of the alternates list or has that not yet been clarified?

Vannut is doing JGP so she's out of the alternate options.
Also, I belive Tobias/Stagniunas are in a higher position before C/B and R/H.

Not happy if Dube&Wolfe really are in top of the pairs alternates. The split couple rule should apply only to Top 12 teams from last season. Nothing against Jessica and partner but they definetly dont deserve 2 chances before teams like Gerboldt/Enbert or Lawrence-Swiegers who even medaled at an ISU championship last season.

kwanfan1818
09-03-2011, 04:50 AM
Not happy if Dube&Wolfe really are in top of the pairs alternates. The split couple rule should apply only to Top 12 teams from last season.
According to the GP announcement, there are three time periods for a top 12 finish:

In the list of bullets in section 7.6, it just says "previously in the top 12 of a World Championship would be next on the list taking the points of the previous partner"

"a World Championship" suggests any World Championship, but the taking the points of the previous partner doesn't work very well if they're mixing points by season.

In the paragraph following the bulleted list, it states,

'In the skater/couple selection process, for Pairs and Ice Dance, who were placed amongst the ranks as mentioned above in the year 2009/2010 or 2010/2011 and have reached the Grand Prix minimum score in the period as required, but have split, will be considered in the alternate list with the new partner, if proof is given that they intend to continue the competitive career. In this case, the minimum score is not required for the new couple"

Like everything else that is contradictory or unclear in the announcement, it specifically says the last two seasons, but the "Grand Prix minimum score in the period as required" means last season. Either no one in the 2009/2010 season meets this requirement, or they're only talking about skaters who reached top 12 two seasons ago, but dropped out of top 12 while meeting the minimum score with their old partner last season, it's hard to say. It could also mean that those who met the minimum score with the old partner last season inherit the old minimum score, but those who were top 12 two years ago and didn't compete last year/meet the minimum score last year have to get a minimum score with the new partner. Whatever they mean, they haven't been clear.

This paragraph is inconsistent with 2.2.f, which states, "Pairs or Dance couples, who were placed amongst the ranks as previously mentioned in criteria a) and b) in the year 2009/10 or 2010/11, have reached the minimum score as required, but have split, will be considered in the alternate list with the new partner, if proof is given in writing by their Member that they intend to continue their competitive career, because it extends the alternates list to 2.2.b, which is anyone who was top 24 SB or WR with the old partner, something not mentioned in the alternates list wording.

The paragraph that follows says, "Couples, placed amongst the ranks 1 to 12 of the previous season, but have split and continue their competitive skating with a new partner, will be positioned in second priority of the alternate list (directly following the come back skaters) and a minimum score of the new “skating combination” is not required."

Not sure whether they had two paragraphs and didn't deleted one, or what.




Nothing against Jessica and partner but they definetly dont deserve 2 chances before teams like Gerboldt/Enbert or Lawrence-Swiegers who even medaled at an ISU championship last season.
Their priority is to get new couples made up of at least one previously successful skater an event, but there's nothing in the documentation that skips a split couple who has already been given a host event. It just doesn't guarantee them two.

It's also possible that Skate Canada got a clarification, and finding that Dube/Wolfe aren't on the alternates list, assigned them to SC. Emily Samuelson would have been in the same position, but she and Gilles are just getting programs, and may have decided to skip the GP season. Either could be on the alternates list by competing in and winning a Fall senior B, but they'd be at the bottom of the list.

toddlj
09-20-2011, 03:53 PM
Alban Preaubert has been crossed-off of the roster for Skate Canada.

ETA: We're assuming KVDP will be offered the slot?

kwanfan1818
09-20-2011, 06:09 PM
Van der Perren is first on the alternates list. He's the only one left on the top 24 SB list with only one event who has not either withdrawn (Liebers, Preaubert) or retired (Bradley).

The criteria are contradictory, since several times it mentions only top 24 SB getting two before the top 75 are in the running, and once it mentions top 24 SB and/or WS getting two first.

If top 24 WS get two before top 75 SB list, then the next two in line are:

Majorov (15 WS, 33 SB) -- currently SC
Schultheiss (17 WS, 44 SB) -- currently NHK

Otherwise, the host federation gets to pick one of Murakami (25 SB, SA), Machinda (29 SB, NHK), and Wu (31 SB, CoC), assuming Kovalevski (28 SB) is out of the running for GP. (There was conflicting info earlier about whether he retired.)

icellist
09-20-2011, 07:34 PM
So for ladies the alternates list is...
Joshi Helgesson
Sofia Biryukova
Mae Berenice Meite
Min Jeong Kwak

Most likely Meite will be given TEB. So, I'm counting her out. Since Helgesson (Skate America) and Biryukova (Rostelecom) both have one assignment, does that mean that Kwak is at the top of the alternates list since she does not have an initial assignment?

I know Kwak just withdrew from Nebelhorn; I'm just trying to understand how the alternates list works

kirkbiggestfan
09-20-2011, 07:54 PM
So for ladies the alternates list is...
Joshi Helgesson
Sofia Biryukova
Mae Berenice Meite
Min Jeong Kwak

Most likely Meite will be given TEB. So, I'm counting her out. Since Helgesson (Skate America) and Biryukova (Rostelecom) both have one assignment, does that mean that Kwak is at the top of the alternates list since she does not have an initial assignment?

I know Kwak just withdrew from Nebelhorn; I'm just trying to understand how the alternates list works

The French Fed assigned Silete but not Meite to TEB. They are probably hoping for more withdrawals, so that Meite gets a 2nd spot somewhere else. They could invite Silete, Marrocco, and Didier at TEB, even if it is not the likeliest scenario.

Stephanie
09-20-2011, 08:18 PM
Why hasn't the French Fed named their TBAs yet? Everyone else has and I thought they were all required to by around September 2nd.

kwanfan1818
09-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Depending on what paragraph or bullet point you read, after the comeback skaters) (and for dance and pairs, split couples) get assigned, the next priority is either:

Giving the top 24 SB and/or top 24 WS a second assignment (since they're already guaranteed one in the initial selection) before going to the top 75 SB list

or

Giving the top 24 SB a second assignment before going to the to 75 SB list.

Viktoria Helgesson was assigned to Skate America, which might mean that because she was the highest-ranking (in the SB list) top 24 SB without a second spot, she got the automatic assignment. However, for top 75 SB the host Fed gets to pick one of the top three, and it's also possible she was chosen from Biryukova, Samson, and her, who were top three on the top 75 list.

If the former, then the alternates list is:

Joshi Helgesson, the only skater in the top 24 SB and/or top 24 WS with only one assignment.

After that the choice is any of the top three from the top 75 list:

Biryukova (28 SB, RC)
Samson (30 SB, no assignments)
Vannut (33 SB, no assignments)

If one of these three is assigned, then Meite (SB 34, NHK) would be in the mix.

If the latter, then Joshi Helgesson (SB 36) would be in the pool of three after Meite.

The way it's written, it's possible that all of the original top three don't have to be chosen before someone moving up into the top three is chosen.

Ziggy
09-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Vannut is doing JGP so she is out of the running.

toddlj
09-21-2011, 02:48 PM
Vannut is doing JGP so she is out of the running.

Vannut is no longer on the JGP roster for Brasov. Not sure if one can withdraw from JGP to be added to GP.

Ziggy
09-21-2011, 02:50 PM
Vannut is no longer on the JGP roster. Does having previously been put her out of the running? Not sure if one can withdraw from one to be added to the other.

She can do that.

Maybe it means she knows she's gonna get a GP soon?

Hopefully it's that and not injury.

toddlj
09-21-2011, 02:52 PM
She can do that.

Maybe it means she knows she's gonna get a GP soon?

Hopefully it's that and not injury.

I Hope so too! I suppose we will find out soon/eventually.