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kwanfan1818
08-31-2011, 06:16 PM
Thank you so much kwanfan1818 for giving such a detailed explanation!
Thank you for the link confirming the 2 GP's for the top 24 world and SB ranked couples. Which as you say appears to be contradicted in later communications.
This is one of many contradictions in the same section of the same document. If the GP Announcement was a functional specification or business requirements document in a software project, the project would be a disaster.


I'm interested to know why you haven't included Hurtado/Diaz in your top 24 world rankings, as they are ranked No. 23 and have only been assigned the Bompard GP so far?
I had been checking the WS for updates since my last printout at the end of May, and missed that they cleaned it up on 17 June. With the Crone/Poirier, the Kerrs, Chock/Zuerlein, Faiella/Scali, and the Hubbelsl removed from the SB list, that changes a lot in the top 24, and explains a number of GP assignments:

Top 24 WR, not Top 24 SB -- assuming they don't make any impacting updates to remove Hoffmann/Zavozin and Monko/Khaliavin before the season begins*

Huang/Zheng
Gorshkova/Butikov
Coomes/Buckland
Ralph/Hill
Alessandrini/Vaturi
Hurtado/Diaz
Yu/Wang

Top 75
Kriengkrairut/Guilietti-Schmitt
Heekin-Canedy/Shakalov -- split?
Zahorski/Miart
Cannuscio/McManus
Frolenkova/Kasalo
Guignard/Fabri
Cannuscio/Lorello
Walden/Edwards

Or if they don't use top 24 WS, then

Top 75

Kriengkrairut/Guilietti-Schmitt
Huang/Zheng
Heekin-Canedy/Shakalov -- split?
Zahorski/Miart
Gorshkova/Butikov
Coomes/Buckland
Yu/Wang
Cannuscio/McManus
Ralph/Hill
frolenkova/Kasalo
Hurtado/Diaz
Guignard/Fabbri


*If the ISU updated the WS list before the first fall Senior B to remove Hoffmann/Zavozin and Mysliveckova/Novak, then Cannuscio/McManus would move to #23 and Paul/Islam to #24. If they use the updated list for alternates, then Cannuscio/McManus might be bumped to the top of the 24 SB/WR queue, because they'd be the only top 24 SB/WR team with no spots, and then revert to their regular ranking. Or they could decide to use the WS list as of the initial GP selection date. This is another thing the ISU didn't specify in the GP Announcement.


Alexis Miart will be back on the ice within 2 to 4 weeks and is aiming for the Bompard GP.
Thank you for the news. There's nothing in the document that says that turning down a GP from the alternates list affects any future slots, so if their turn on the alternates list came before they are ready -- not likely, but possible -- that shouldn't affect TEB. It also doesn't say whether a team keeps their ranking on the alternates list if they have to pass because of illness or injury.

In this case, C/B should hope for top 24 WS being a guaranteed spot on the list (7th for them), because 7th is the best they could do if the hierarchy goes top 24 SB to top 75, with Zahorski/Miart in the mix.

haribobo
08-31-2011, 07:18 PM
C/L had the opportunity to do two GP last season,while K/G-S had only one and overall K/G-S finished stronger than C/L.

The other question might be where any of the teams might get more points.

Wow I totally forgot that C/L had 2 GP's last year, I was thinking they were on JGP. Also, I forgot that KGS did Cup of Russia in 2007- then had 2 seasons with no GP assignments. I don't think USFS is too concerned about world ranking points- I'm sure if the GP spots are there, they will fill them with the skaters they feel are most deserving, and then send everyone else they can to Senior B's. There is really no way to strategize on whether to give the 3rd SA spot to KGS, L/C, C/M, or C/L based on where they might finish...because they are all pretty close anyway.

kwanfan1818
08-31-2011, 07:24 PM
All of the Federations should be thinking about World Ranking points, since they drive the Group selection at championships.

taz'smum
08-31-2011, 07:29 PM
*If the ISU updated the WS list before the first fall Senior B to remove Hoffmann/Zavozin and Mysliveckova/Novak, then Cannuscio/McManus would move to #23 and Paul/Islam to #24. If they use the updated list for alternates, then Cannuscio/McManus might be bumped to the top of the 24 SB/WR queue, because they'd be the only top 24 SB/WR team with no spots.


Oh, that would be great for Cannuscio/McManus to jump to the top of the list for alternates! I hope that happens!!

taz'smum
08-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Huang/Zheng have been added as the host pick for the China GP.

sandra_persch
08-31-2011, 08:40 PM
Huang/Zheng have been added as the host pick for the China GP.

and Qiuying ZHU (CHN) was added to Cup of China too.

haribobo
08-31-2011, 08:47 PM
All of the Federations should be thinking about World Ranking points, since they drive the Group selection at championships.

Well I don't mean that USFS is actively ignoring them or anything, just that it is not the main factor in deciding who gets assignments, nor should it be. WR points are a result which comes afterwards. There is no way to guess which of 5 different equally matched dance teams will benefit the most from GP points. Just pick the one who is most deserving in whatever criteria USFS deems important, and be done with it.

julieann
08-31-2011, 09:29 PM
Well I don't mean that USFS is actively ignoring them or anything, just that it is not the main factor in deciding who gets assignments, nor should it be. WR points are a result which comes afterwards. There is no way to guess which of 5 different equally matched dance teams will benefit the most from GP points. Just pick the one who is most deserving in whatever criteria USFS deems important, and be done with it.

Doesn't WR points gets skewed by skaters who are either injured and don't compete as much and those skaters who do extra international competitions? It's not really indicative of 'who can be beat who' at any certain competition. Maybe that's how they are looking at it.

kwanfan1818
08-31-2011, 09:43 PM
WR points are skewed -- they're also skewed by whether the Federation even sends skaters to competitions --but they're still used to determine groups at competitions.


and Qiuying ZHU (CHN) was added to Cup of China too.
She'll need to qualify a minimum score at a fall senior B, because she wasn't top 75 SB, and she didn't meet the minimum score last season.

taz'smum
09-02-2011, 05:07 PM
All the TBD spots for Ice dance have now been filled with the exception of the Paris GP.

toddlj
09-02-2011, 05:25 PM
All the TBD spots for Ice dance have now been filled with the exception of the Paris GP.

Actually, Mens, Ladies and Pairs are all complete as well (except France)

Host Picks, Mens:
Armin MAHBANOOZADEH (USA)
Elladj BALDE (CAN)
Nan SONG (CHN)
Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN)
Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS)

Host Picks, Ladies:
Joelle FORTE (USA)
Adriana DESANCTIS (CAN)
Qiuying ZHU (CHN)
Shoko ISHIKAWA (JPN)

Host Picks, Pairs:
Caydee DENNEY /John COUGHLIN (USA)
Jessica DUBE /Sebastien WOLFE (CAN)
Wenjing SUI /Cong HAN CHN)
Ksenia STOLBOVA /Fedor KLIMOV (RUS)

Ice Dance:
Isabella CANNUSCIO /Ian LORELLO (USA)
Tarrah HARVEY /Keith GAGNON (CAN)
Xintong HUANG /Xun ZHENG (CHN)
Cathy REED /Chris REED (JPN)
Ekaterina PUSHKASH /Jonathan GUERREIRO (RUS)

kwanfan1818
09-02-2011, 06:32 PM
Canada's going to be sending a lot of skaters to Fall senior B's, since the majority of their picks have not qualified a minimum score last year and/or were not in the top 75 SB list.

Harvey/Gagnon competed at Nebelhorn last year, but their score of 110.01 doesn't meet the minimum score requirements of 111.15. As a split couple host pick, Dube/Wolfe need a minimum score, which they wouldn't if they were an alternates pick. That almost guarantees them two GP, since according to two of three criteria listed in the GP announcement, they should be at the top of the alternates list as a split couple. Neither Balde nor deSanctis could be alternates for Worlds last year without a minimum score, and they, too, have to qualify this fall.

Qinying Zhu missed the minimum score at 4C's last year (102.38 vs. 117.48 minimum) and was ranked 111 on the SB list. She's going to have to up her best by almost 15% to qualify. Joelle Forte needs to earn a minimum score at Fall senior B as well. That was probably the biggest surprise appointment.

Of the other skaters who weren't on the SB list, Shoko Ishikawa more than qualified with 146.59 at the NRW Trophy last year.

Many of the other assignments mean that the skaters are off the alternates lists, because they now have two: Mahbahnoozadeh, Song, Menshov, Sui/Han, Stolbova/Klimov, Huang/Zheng, Reed/Reed, Pushkash/Guerreiro. Denney/Coughlin were already off after they were assigned to TEB to replace Canac/Bonheur.

Sylvia
09-02-2011, 06:39 PM
Canada's going to be sending a lot of skaters to Fall senior B's, since the majority of their picks have not qualified a minimum score last year and/or were not in the top 75 SB list.
They've listed Finlandia Trophy in addition to Nebelhorn on their International Assignments page this year.


Harvey/Gagnon competed at Nebelhorn last year, but their score of 110.01 doesn't meet the minimum score requirements of 111.15. As a split couple host pick, Dube/Wolfe need a minimum score, which they wouldn't if they were an alternates pick. That almost guarantees them two GP, since according to two of three criteria listed in the GP announcement, they should be at the top of the alternates list as a split couple. Neither Balde nor deSanctis could be alternates for Worlds last year without a minimum score, and they, too, have to qualify this fall.
DeSanctis, Balde, Dube/Wolfe and Harvey/Gagnon are all going to Nebelhorn Trophy.


Joelle Forte needs to earn a minimum score at Fall senior B as well. That was probably the biggest surprise appointment.
Forte made her international debut for the USA this past spring at Gardena Spring Trophy in Italy (125.00 total score/4th place, but didn't show her best there) and has been assigned to Nebelhorn.

Thanks for your "expertise" on the topic of the GP alternate list, kwanfan1818! (Denney/Coughlin were assigned to NHK Trophy, not TEB - typo).

kwanfan1818
09-02-2011, 06:50 PM
Forte made her international debut for the USA this past spring at Gardena Spring Trophy in Italy (125.00 total score/4th place, but didn't show her best there) and has been assigned to Nebelhorn.
I thought she missed the minimum there. I'm glad she's getting Nebelhorn, to wet her feet, if she's going to be at Skate America.


Thanks for your "expertise" on the topic of the GP alternate list, kwanfan1818! (Denney/Coughlin were assigned to NHK Trophy, not TEB - typo).
Thank you for the correction. Of course they replaced Pang/Tong at NHK :duh: Canac/Bonheur were replaced by "TBD".


Was the 1 September deadline for TBD announcements I've read about several times here an ISU deadline, not just a USFS deadline for SA? If so, the French Fed must have told the ISU about some plan to choose later. Some selections better be based on Fall senior B results, or the skaters won't have a chance to qualify the minimum scores.

haribobo
09-02-2011, 06:50 PM
So the next 3 men on the alternate list should be KVDP, Preaubert, and Majorov. Next 3 ladies remain the same (Helgesson sisters and Biryukova, followed by Vannut, Meite, and Kwak). Pairs should be among Lawrence/Swiegers, Gerboldt/Enbert, Castelli/Shnapir, Zhang/Wang, Dube/Wolfe, and Marley/Brubaker. Dance has Lichtman/Copely, Gorshkova/Butikov, Coomes/Buckland, and Ralph/Hill. Do Chock/Bates get a 2nd assignment before or after those others, or do they now go to the bottom of the alternates list or has that not yet been clarified?