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Tammi
08-06-2011, 07:45 PM
I agree it does seem like an unfair disadvantage to non-host countries, but it's also unfair to rank teams as replacements and then skip the next in line simply because it's their own country hosting the event. With so few dance entries per event and penalties imposed for some of the withdrawals, it's likely that we'll see far fewer replacements from now on. The ISU could always "play" with the withdrawal dates. For example, they could say the CZE team withdrew before the HUN team, so Chock/Bates get offered Skate Canada and Mitchell/Islam get offered Skate America. I think the chance does remain though, however slim, that a next in line replacement will come from a host country and they'll need to address it. Skipping a replacement early in the season probably won't matter, as they would most likely get the next one. Skipping a replacement at the end of the season though, could mean no GP for that team.

Ziggy
08-06-2011, 08:11 PM
No country can have more than three spots. The alternates list doesn't override that rule.

Fair enough.

I guess this situation would potentially happen so rarely that, it doesn't really need to be addressed.

rhumba
08-06-2011, 09:29 PM
Fair enough.

I guess this situation would potentially happen so rarely that, it doesn't really need to be addressed.

It turned out not so rare since P/I would have been in the same scenario if C/B got SA, next in line would be P/I for SC. I think ISU did not realize the possibilty when set up this rule.

sandra_persch
08-13-2011, 10:14 AM
Glad to see Canada has entered Adriana Desantic for Nebelhorn Trophy. This should help her finally get an ISU seasons best score again and a chance to meet the minimum score. Last year they couldn't have sent her to 4CCs at all since she hadn't competed internationally!

danafan
08-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Glad to see Canada has entered Adriana Desantic for Nebelhorn Trophy. This should help her finally get an ISU seasons best score again and a chance to meet the minimum score. Last year they couldn't have sent her to 4CCs at all since she hadn't competed internationally!

I agree - but doesn't Canada have two spots in ladies at Nehbelhorn based on last year's result? I don't know why we wouldn't use it :(

Does Desanctis have to meet the minimum grand prix score (the 2/3 of the world champion score) to get the host pick at Skate Canada?

Forte is going to Nehbelhorn too so I wonder if she's being considered for the TBA at Skate America.

sandra_persch
08-13-2011, 01:58 PM
I agree - but doesn't Canada have two spots in ladies at Nehbelhorn based on last year's result? I don't know why we wouldn't use it :(


Nebelhorn Spots where limited to 20 overall according to the announcement so by accepting 27 they have already gone over the planned quota and I would guess they didn't consider the German Skaters in the accountements quota

millipied
08-13-2011, 11:17 PM
Pang/Tong are officially OUT of GP season
http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2011-08-10/01115696131.shtml

julieann
08-13-2011, 11:35 PM
Pang/Tong are officially OUT of GP season
http://sports.sina.com.cn/o/2011-08-10/01115696131.shtml

This was posted in the Chinese thread, I wonder if they are planing a wedding....:watch:

MissIzzy
08-14-2011, 01:32 PM
I think we've just seen the Alternate's List in action; Denis Ten has replaced Peter Liebers on the Skate America roster: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00007526.htm This left Armin M bypassed because of the three-berth rule, though it also left KVDP bypassed because he was on that roster already.:P

Stephanie
08-14-2011, 02:25 PM
Thank you for spotting that, MissIzzy. I'm thrilled for Denis Ten, who's one of my favorites. Hopefully he'll have a better season this year than last.

Jenna
08-14-2011, 04:51 PM
Yay! He just skated a good SP at Thornhill, so I'm happy for him.

SamuraiK
08-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Unfortunate for Liebers, he really needed the GP to keep building on the momentun he had last season. Hopefully he'll come back stronger at Euros..

Yay for Denis Ten.

kwanfan1818
08-14-2011, 11:10 PM
Does Desanctis have to meet the minimum grand prix score (the 2/3 of the world champion score) to get the host pick at Skate Canada?

I don't see an ISU bio for her, and unless she met the minimum score of 117.48 at a senior B last season, since she wasn't top 75 on the SB -- she's not on the list -- she has to make the minimum score at a Fall senior B to skate as a host pick.

Although not explicitly stated for anyone except top 75 SB on the alternates list, it appears by adding Hubbell/Donahoe as a SA host pick, that host picks can be provisional picks and then earn the minimum score at a Fall senior B.

Sylvia
08-14-2011, 11:35 PM
Does Desanctis have to meet the minimum grand prix score (the 2/3 of the world champion score) to get the host pick at Skate Canada?

I don't see an ISU bio for her, and unless she met the minimum score of 117.48 at a senior B last season, since she wasn't top 75 on the SB -- she's not on the list -- she has to make the minimum score at a Fall senior B to skate as a host pick.
Adriana DeSanctis is scheduled to compete at Nebelhorn (his first-ever international representing Canada after having represented USA as a junior about a decade ago!). She didn't have a great competition at Thornhill this weekend, finishing 3rd overall (36.70 SP, 80.95 1st in FS, 117.65 total), but hopefully she will be better prepared for Nebelhorn.


Forte is going to Nehbelhorn too so I wonder if she's being considered for the TBA at Skate America.
I would assume so at this point. Joelle Forte's 9th place finish at 2011 US Nationals led to her assignment at 2011 Gardena Spring Trophy (her first international representing the USA) where she placed 4th with a total score of 125.00 back in early April.

kwanfan1818
08-15-2011, 12:12 AM
There's more confusion in the replacements wording:

The first third bullet point only mentions top 24 SB and the fourth says those in the top 24 with one event will be picked in order "done by points."

"Points" is usually used to describe WS, while "Scores" is usually used to describe SB.

The third paragraph after the bullet points includes 1-24 WS:


The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 24 ranked skaters/couples according to their SB and/or their WS until all of such skaters/couples will have received the invitation to a second event.

Does this mean that the alternates list is always ranked by SB scores, regardless of the WS points? By WS points? For example, in Ice Dance, Huang/Zheng are 26 on the SB list, behind Hoffmann/Zavozin, Paul/Islam, Pushkash/Guerriero, Mysliveckova/Novak (WD), Lichtman/Copely, Reed/Reed, and Tobias/Stagniunas, but 13 on the WS list, a higher WS than any team but Hoffmann/Zavozin. does that mean H/Z are 9th on the alternates list (including Chock/Bates at the top)? Or are they 2nd?

Assuming the ISU means the alternate list is ranked by SB points only, then, to date, we have, based on this thread, since the alternates list doesn't override a TBD:

Mysliveckova/Novak (removed from ISU list) in SC, which should go to Chock/Bates, since Crone and Samuelson don't have partners, Zuerlein isn't skating, and Poirier's partner is blocked by USFS for the season.

Hoffmann/Zavozin: he's retired, she doesn't have a partner, if she plans to continue. That knocks them off the alternates list and opens a spot at SA.

Paul/Islam, who have NHK, become next on the list, and should get the SA spot.

The Pairs alternates list looks like:

Denney/Coughlin (split couple)
Sui/Han
Lawrence/Swiegers
Gerboldt/Enbert
Castelli/Schnapir
Stolbova/Klimov
Zhang/Wang

However, P/T were a host pick, and Canac/Bonheur's FRA host pick is back to TBD, so the Chinese Fed can pick any Chinese team (apart from their other host picks, Z/Z and Z/W) to fill the slot, as long as that team is top 75, met the minimum score requirements last season, or meets the minimum score requirements in a Fall senior B.

With Denney/Coughlin in line for P/T's NHK spot, it would make sense for the Chinese Fed to hold onto the TBD, especially this early, since S/H at the top of the list for the next withdrawal that isn't at SC, where they're already invited, and back-to-back SC and CoC isn't a great deal for the skaters,. (Same for Ju/Jin, farther down the list.) Dong/Wu, who are scheduled for NHK, are 11th on the alternates list, much more likely for a late substitution: they can't do FRA twice, and NHK or RUS would be back-to-back with FRA. It would be good strategy to assign them to the TBD at CoC.