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kwanfan1818
08-02-2011, 06:38 PM
2.2.f only states that Hubbell/Donahue can be on the alternates list without a minimum score reached by them, and the alternates list hasn't been published. For the categories up through the top 75 in the alternates list, where the host Federation has the choice of one of the top three highest ranked, they have to be taken in order, and Hubbell/Donahue are unlikely to be higher than Chock/Bates, if they were chosen from the alternates list.

2.2.f contradicts the language in 7.6, in which only top 12 at World Championships counts for the alternates list for split couples, and the second bullet point and the first two paragraphs contradict each other about in what period the top 12 must be reached (no restriction, the last two seasons, the last season).

That suggests that Hubbell/Donahue were chosen as a host pick. There is explicit language that states that top 75 skaters can attain the minimum score at one of the Fall senior B's, but that could be one more oversight in what is a problematic document.

The ISU should just publish a draft on FSU and have us pick it apart. Then they can fix and finalize it.

Tammi
08-02-2011, 06:53 PM
2.2.f contradicts the language in 7.6, in which only top 12 at World Championships counts for the alternates list for split couples, and the second bullet point and the first two paragraphs contradict each other about in what period the top 12 must be reached (no restriction, the last two seasons, the last season).

That suggests that Hubbell/Donahue were chosen as a host pick.I missed that contradiction. I'm so confused. Based on the language of the host picks then, they can only be added when they have a minium qualifying score or are on the seasons best top 75. Does this mean USFS wants them to have the spot, but they won't be an official ISU entry until after Nebelhorn? My head hurts ;) .

kwanfan1818
08-02-2011, 06:56 PM
I missed that contradiction. I'm so confused. Bases on the language of the host picks then, they can only be added when they have a minium qualifying score or are on the seasons best top 75. Does this mean USFS wants them to have the spot, but they won't be an official ISU entry until after Nebelhorn? My head hurts ;) .

They did allow provisional entries last year for championships, pending a minimum score at a qualifying event before the championship began.

It's hard to know what the ISU means, since they contradict themselves more than once in the GP announcement. They waiting until well into July to publish it: you'd think they'd have proofread it before publishing.

Ziggy
08-03-2011, 10:33 AM
well there is still 1 TBA spot remaining ... so keep your fingers crossed ;)

I wanted the spots to go to Cannuscio/Lorello and Kriegenkraut/Gullietti-Schmitt.


Does this mean USFS wants them to have the spot, but they won't be an official ISU entry until after Nebelhorn? My head hurts ;) .

As kwanfan said, you can be an official ISU entry, with minimum score pending.

Tammi
08-03-2011, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the help with deciphering :)

GP assignments were updated on the ISU site today, with Madison/Zach being added and Lucie/Matej being removed. Guess we'll see how the alternates list works pretty soon.

Tammi
08-06-2011, 06:52 PM
Okay, so here's something interesting. It's being reported on the Hungarian News thread that Hoffman/Zavozin are retired and he has already moved on to coaching. With my attempt at interpreting the alternates list for replacements, I believe Madison Chock/Evan Bates would be the 1st on that list. If they have to go in order, which it appears that they do, is there a possibility Chock/Bates could replace Hoffman/Zavozin for their Skate America spot, still leaving the US with a TBA host pick?

lavenderblue
08-06-2011, 06:56 PM
Will Chock/Bates be ready by that point, though, I wonder? Hubbell/Donahue have already spent a summer together and competed twice; as of last month's interview, C/B hadn't even selected music yet (I assume they have by now, but it's a yardstick for comparing preparedness). Even with Madison's results with Greg presumably impacting her placement on the alternates list, could she opt out if she and Evan don't feel sufficiently ready? (Or would that even be a concern, as long as they have something thrown together?)

Ziggy
08-06-2011, 07:08 PM
Tammi, your reasoning sounds correct. So USA could potentially end up with 4 teams.

However, there are reports that Chock/Bates aren't competition ready yet so it's possible they would decline the spot.

Tammi
08-06-2011, 07:14 PM
Yeah, I don't know if their goals for this season include GP's. I guess we'll find out when the alternates list is published. I just thought it was interesting, that any host country could potentially have 4 entries due to this new "next in line" selection process.

Vagabond
08-06-2011, 07:19 PM
A maximum of three skaters/couples from the same ISU Member may compete in the same discipline of any individual event of the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating.

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2726

Ziggy
08-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Yeah, I don't know if their goals for this season include GP's. I guess we'll find out when the alternates list is published. I just thought it was interesting, that any host country could potentially have 4 entries due to this new "next in line" selection process.

Yes, it's very interesting.

It shows another contradiction in the rules (3 entries is supposed to be the maximum, isn't it?).

I imagine that the alternate list is going to be followed in such cases.

It wouldn't be very fair to bypass somebody just because the spot that opened by is at an event where there are three entries from that country already.

rhumba
08-06-2011, 07:24 PM
I think the ISU rule was no more than 3 teams from one country permitted. C/B may do SC instead due to that rule?? That might be the reason that they announced H/D for SA so early to make sure that ISU put C/B in SC slot?? My guess, next on the line is P/I who will get SA as their 2nd GP.

Tammi
08-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Vagabond, I did read that under the section for inital selections, but there's no mention of it under the replacements. As Ziggy pointed out, could they intentionally skip the next in line? With so few dance entries, the "higher ranked" team may end up not getting a replacement assignment. Just one more item that needs to be clarified.

Vagabond
08-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Tammi, even though the ISU has a lot of trouble drafting its rules logically, I don't think there's any way the idea of having four entries from one country is going to fly under any circumstances. The non-host federations put up with a lot, but that would be a bridge too far.

kwanfan1818
08-06-2011, 07:35 PM
No country can have more than three spots. The alternates list doesn't override that rule.

There's nothing explicit that says anything about the alt list overriding a TBD or setting a deadline for using it. I think USFS would skip C/B, since they're pretty much guaranteed another spot if they want it.