PDA

View Full Version : 2011/2012 Grand Prix Athlete Selection



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58

Ziggy
06-28-2011, 10:16 PM
How do you know? Is there some published listed of criteria the host federations are prohibited from considering?

It's not up to the host federations to pick the skaters.

Selection rules are clear on who has spots guaranteed and how many.

You go by Worlds results and then the remaining spots (if there are any) go to skaters based on World Standings and Season's Best scores.

Sui/Han not having been to Worlds meant no guarantee of 2 spots.


Again, how do you know? Why can't the ISU choose to believe the infamous spreadsheet instead of a possibly falsified birth certificate (especially since one of the claims that was reported on FSU (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3078664&postcount=564) was that Sui's birth certificate was allegedly lost due to a leak from a water pipe)?

I obviously don't know what the ISU will choose to believe but the spreadsheet entry could have been easily mistyped by the person entering the data. I don't think it can be used as definite proof.

Sylvia
06-28-2011, 10:21 PM
Has this Globe and Mail article about the Grand Prix been posted here yet? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/evan-lysacek-sets-stage-for-showdown-with-patrick-chan/article2077799/
Excerpts:

The Grand Prix series comes with changes to its structure this season. For one, fewer athletes get a chance to compete. The ISU has dropped the number of competitors to 10 from 12 in the singles competitions at each event, and to eight from 10 in pairs and ice dancing events.
(Actually, dance was reduced to 8 this year; pairs has been at 8 for a while now.)


ISU vice-president David Dore said the changes are twofold: there has been a rebirth of interest in televising international figure skating, and the ISU wants to ensure that the quality of the events is worthy.

“We’ve not been happy with our events in recent years,” he said. “We’re finding out that with dropouts [due to injury], some events weren’t that strong. There was one ice dancing event in Russia that we got down to five ice dancing teams with all the dropouts.”

Also, because athletes have fewer opportunities to make money, the ISU is allowing seeded athletes (top six) to do three Grand Prix events, rather than two, although the choice comes with a price. If athletes skate all three events, they’ll get a bonus. If they sign up for three and don’t skate them, they’ll be penalized.

Dore said that only 29 per cent of the athletes wanted to take advantage of this plan.
...
For the first time, the European Broadcasting Union has signed a deal with the ISU, Dore said, and will bring figure skating to 26 countries in Europe. Japanese networks also appear keen.

Vagabond
06-28-2011, 10:33 PM
It's not up to the host federations to pick the skaters.

Selection rules are clear on who has spots guaranteed and how many.

You go by Worlds results and then the remaining spots (if there are any) go to skaters based on World Standings and Season's Best scores.

Sui/Han not having been to Worlds meant no guarantee of 2 spots.

:confused: AFAIK, the Federations do do the selections, subject to the rules about seeding, guarantees of two (or three) spots, "host picks," and such. This is why, for example, Tugba Karademir used to get invited to Skate America and Skate Canada when there were other skaters with higher World Rankings who didn't get invited to any Grand Prix (lower travel expenses for the host federation than picking someone who trained in Europe or Asia).

Ziggy
06-28-2011, 10:35 PM
:confused: AFAIK, the Federations do do the selections, subject to the rules about seeding, guarantees of two (or three) spots, "host picks," and such. This is why, for example, Tugba Karademir used to get invited to Skate America and Skate Canada when there were other skaters with higher World Rankings who didn't get invited to any Grand Prix (lower travel expenses for the host federation than picking someone who trained in Europe or Asia).

If I understand this correctly, the rules have been changed this season to prevent this and spots now have to go according to the World placements and then WS and SB.

Vagabond
06-28-2011, 10:55 PM
If I understand this correctly, the rules have been changed this season to prevent this and spots now have to go according to the World placements and then WS and SB.

Ah! :)

If the rules really have been changed, that would work against skaters (like Sui & Han) who come from countries with considerable depth in one discipline -- and these were some of the skaters who were originally supposed to benefit from having the Grand Prix! :(

I'm still a bit sceptical, since Viktoria Helgesson, who is higher in the World Standings and Season's World Rankings than Ashley Wagner got only one berth, whereas Wagner got two. :shuffle:

pinky166
06-28-2011, 10:57 PM
Definitely not feeling the spot reductions. Sui/Han with only one assignment? Vannut, Lee, Kwak, Morocco, Gong, Dobbs with no assignments at all? And the men's assignments are just strange. Surprised about Zhang, no offense to her or anything but all the ladies I mentioned above are probably more deserving of an assignment than she is based on last season. Also surprised more Russian babies didn't move up - no Shelepen, Agafonova, Sheveleva on the rosters.

SamuraiK
06-28-2011, 11:12 PM
“We’ve not been happy with our events in recent years,” he said. “We’re finding out that with dropouts [due to injury], some events weren’t that strong. There was one ice dancing event in Russia that we got down to five ice dancing teams with all the dropouts.”

Yeah and reducing the spots will solve that:rolleyes:. If Cup of Russia last year had an initial field of only 8 they would have been down to only 3 teams..:rolleyes::shuffle:

MacMadame
06-28-2011, 11:12 PM
Again, how do you know? Why can't the ISU choose to believe the infamous spreadsheet instead of a possibly falsified birth certificate (especially since one of the claims that was reported on FSU (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3078664&postcount=564) was that Sui's birth certificate was allegedly lost due to a leak from a water pipe)?
Because they'd get the pants sued off them. A Birth Certificate is a legal document. A spreadsheet is not.

Vagabond
06-28-2011, 11:15 PM
The spreadsheet can be treated as an authorized admission by the Chinese Federation acting on behalf of Sui Wenjing. At this point, any birth certificate Sui and the Chinese Federation come up with might not be admissible evidence, given questions about authenticity.

Ziggy
06-28-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm still a bit sceptical, since Viktoria Helgesson, who is higher in the World Standings and Season's World Rankings than Ashley Wagner got only one berth, whereas Wagner got two. :shuffle:

That is a good point.

Ehhhh I wish the system was "automatic" and went exactly according to pre-defined clear criteria with no room for politics.

At least the alternate lists should be that.

Sylvia
06-28-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm still a bit sceptical, since Viktoria Helgesson, who is higher in the World Standings and Season's World Rankings than Ashley Wagner got only one berth, whereas Wagner got two. :shuffle:
However, Wagner is #17 in the Season Best scores rankings and Viktoria Helgesson is #31.

ETA:

Vannut, Lee, Kwak, Morocco, Gong, Dobbs with no assignments at all?
Well none of these ladies were "guaranteed" a GP invite and we don't know if all of them were submitted for GP consideration (all are still JGP age-eligible, too). Caroline Zhang (51 SB / 30 WS) was a host pick at Skate America.

Here are their 2010-11 Season Best (SB) scores and current ISU World Standings (WS) rankings:
Ira Vannut 33 SB / 29 WS
Min-Jeong Kwak 38 SB / 42 WS
Kristiene Gong 48 SB / 58 WS
Cheltzie Lee 53 SB / 51 WS
Amanda Dobbs 55 SB / 33 WS
Lena Marrocco 69 SB / 37 WS

julieann
06-28-2011, 11:50 PM
If I understand this correctly, the rules have been changed this season to prevent this and spots now have to go according to the World placements and then WS and SB.

Which is exactly how the skaters should be picked.


Ah! :)

If the rules really have been changed, that would work against skaters (like Sui & Han) who come from countries with considerable depth in one discipline -- and these were some of the skaters who were originally supposed to benefit from having the Grand Prix!

As of right now China does not have depth in pairs, they have about three. One is coming off an injury and who know what they will look like and the other pair is twice Sui's age so they will retire soon. Probably after Sochi (hopefully not sooner), so S/H will have the stage to themselves after that, unless China has another pair about to break out, and I haven't seen them.

Russia has to leave good skaters home all the time in favor of teams from other countries who only have one pair. S/H got one assignment last year to start and then they received a second one. Because of someone getting injured or dropping or they got they open spot at the COC, whatever. With the pairs field being so watered down in the GPF a medal was certainly within their reach. I thought B/L would win it but they bombed in the free. But if those top pairs didn't have to withdraw S/H wouldn't have even been in the GPF.

S/S - 2 assignments
P/T - 2 assignments
S/H - 1 assignment
I/M - 1 assignment
B/L - 2 assignments
MT/M - 1 assignment

So 1/2 of them started this process with only one assignment but thanks to the withdraws of D/D, K/S M/B, V/T, Z/Z, B/H, I/B, M/R, J/C, DM/K, S/C etc....they got to take their place and skate in the GPF where otherwise it wouldn't have been possible.

I remember last year when people thought they would run out of pairs to send. I'm sure they are trying to avoid that. And with S/S and K/S only taking up two more places, that couldn't have thrown too big of a wrench in things.

Surely no one is suggestions that the ISU allow everyone to skate and have no cutoff or criteria?

Ziggy
06-29-2011, 12:04 AM
However, Wagner is #17 in the Season Best scores rankings and Viktoria Helgesson is #31.

Oh thanks, that explains it then.


Surely no one is suggestions that the ISU allow everyone to skate and have no cutoff or criteria?

No but since ISU is finally picking skaters according to last season's results and not the whims of organising federations, I don't see the need for any other hurdles like reducing the number of skaters or a minimum score.

julieann
06-29-2011, 12:06 AM
No but since ISU is finally picking skaters according to last season's results and not the whims of organising federations, I don't see the need for any other hurdles like reducing the number of skaters or a minimum score.

But you still need a cut off somewhere, otherwise everyone will get invited.

All skaters have a seasons best or a world ranking, so where do you draw the line with who gets to go?

Ziggy
06-29-2011, 12:21 AM
But you still need a cut off somewhere, otherwise everyone will get invited.

All skaters have a seasons best or a world ranking, so where do you draw the line with who gets to go?

The cut-off point would be the number of spots available on the GP circuit.