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pinky166
10-08-2011, 03:52 PM
Is Dornbush taller than Chan? It looks that way from the pic

I believe Dornbush is 5'8" and Chan 5'7" which would make sense looking at this picture. Chan is listed as 5'8" on some sites, but honestly he doesn't look it, but I guess it's possible Dornbush might have grown.

DickButtonFan
10-08-2011, 04:09 PM
I just watched Amodio, what is going on in the Morozov camp? Amodio and Ando are tilting so funny on their jumps. It's horrendous.

And LOL at the guy at 5:10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVbHq6e93nU

crystalice
10-08-2011, 04:25 PM
By the way my first reaction to the marks was why Daisuke got 78 on pcs, and thats about my only problem. If his so and so skate was reflected in lower pcs than he is used to- because when he skates good he can reach 84-then maybe Chan's should have also. God's point. Very valid. Because Dai is not Canadian? :lol:

pinky166
10-08-2011, 05:24 PM
I just watched Amodio, what is going on in the Morozov camp? Amodio and Ando are tilting so funny on their jumps. It's horrendous.

And LOL at the guy at 5:10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVbHq6e93nU

What is ever going on in the Morozov camp really? I feel like there's always a lot of curiousity and hush-hush speculative skandals surrounding Morozov and his skaters. Maybe it's just me but it sure seems that way. Morozov, though he has many good coaching qualities and skaters under him, just seems to elicit sketchiness for lack of a better word. Haha

aemeraldrainc
10-08-2011, 06:56 PM
I so miss this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndzB7ZWOE3c&t=1m) Amodio. :(

Well, this is not so far off from what he's become:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR7YfXoOaKI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

That was in 2009.
I guess Morozov took what he thought Amodio was already good at and exploited it?
:lol:
Sounds all :drama:

lauravvv
10-08-2011, 08:28 PM
I so miss this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndzB7ZWOE3c&t=1m) Amodio. :(
I too miss a different Amodio. Not so much that (I think the program is nice, but a bit ordinary), but rather something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUYbJauxPfw. I feel that it is one of the most authentic (I mean the feeling, not so much the moves) flamenco programs that I've seen from a singles skater. Of course, we can't quite compare competition programs to exhibition performances. But, unfortunately, Amodio's new exhibition program to Ray Charles is worse than the previous one.

falling_dance
10-08-2011, 09:02 PM
I too miss a different Amodio. Not so much that (I think the program is nice, but a bit ordinary), but rather something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUYbJauxPfw.

Now, that's an exhibition.

aemeraldrainc
10-09-2011, 01:05 AM
Thanks to Johnny’s eye-opening performances, I think what Buttle and indeed Lambiel had to offer the sport began to be recognized and rewarded more, as the sport moved a bit beyond the macho jump-focused influence of Elvis and Plushy, and began to realize once again in a fresh and different way (due to a variety of changes and influences) the impact and possibility of men exhibiting aesthetic beauty along with athleticism and well-rounded programs. Alas, Matt Savoie was never fully appreciated by the judges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAsNpBJbk0

Enjoy.

Just felt compelled to add that I never understood why Savoie was constantly undermarked, low-balled, under-appreciated and basically ignored for most, if not all, of his career.
Maybe because his coach/coaches didn't have the political clout?
Anyways, sorry for hijacking the thread.

Moving on..

Vash01
10-09-2011, 02:31 AM
Just felt compelled to add that I never understood why Savoie was constantly undermarked, low-balled, under-appreciated and basically ignored for most, if not all, of his career.
Maybe because his coach/coaches didn't have the political clout?
Anyways, sorry for hijacking the thread.

Moving on..

Under the 6.0 system he did not get as much credit for the difficult jump entrances he had. Had he been born about 5 years later, perhaps we would have seen him handsomely rewarded for those under the COP. His jumps were not as consistent as some other skaters, and under 6.0 that was important. I also believe the USFSA did not go to bat for him in international competitions.

Coco
10-09-2011, 02:39 AM
Well, he wasn't rewarded for his transitions in Turin, but with Johnny and Evan contending for bronze going into the Games, I'm sure USFS didn't "support" him.

Aussie Willy
10-09-2011, 03:22 AM
At a judging seminar in 2006 (post Olympics) I attended one of the judges presenting used Matt Savoie as an example of good transitions (presenter was Joe Inman). Savoie probably wasn't rewarded as judges were still getting their heads around them.

But under 6.0 transitions really weren't even a concept for judging purposes. And how could you sum them up under one mark. Plus 6.0 doesn't reward things that are done well. It was all about deducting.

kwanfan1818
10-09-2011, 05:00 AM
I can't find the list of bullet points for the presentation mark, but I thought one of them covered transitions, because the difficulty of B/S's transitions was one of the arguments for why their presentation mark should have been higher.

gkelly
10-09-2011, 05:23 AM
Savoie probably wasn't rewarded as judges were still getting their heads around them.


But under 6.0 transitions really weren't even a concept for judging purposes. And how could you sum them up under one mark. Plus 6.0 doesn't reward things that are done well. It was all about deducting.

I don't think it was all about deducting. There were deductions for errors in the short program, but even in the SP the judges still had to build a base mark from what the skaters did and how well they did it before deducting from that base mark. Everyone did not start out with 6.0.

In the long program it was all about building a base mark. The only deductions for long programs were for rule violations, not execution errors like in the short.

The problem was that the guidelines were vague and everything had to be summed up in two marks, so it was easy for judges to ignore things that weren't important to them or were hard to keep track of and to overvalue things that stood out to them most.

It's a lot easier to keep track of jumps landed than to keep track of transitions, so I think that's why the jumps tended to have the largest effect on the scores and transitions relatively little effect.

Vagabond
10-09-2011, 05:38 AM
The 6.0 system disproportionately rewarded men who could do a quadruple jump while undervaluing difficult jump entrances on triples. Due to an injury, Savoie never attempted quadruple jumps in competition, although I have read he did occasionally do them in practice. In the judges' minds, the fact that Savoie had some of the most difficult entrances to his triples (especially the axel and the lutz) of any skater didn't compensate for the lack of a triple.

That said, Savoie didn't help himself with his introverted style, his propensity to fall in top-level competition, and his occasional tendency to travel on his spins.

Wonderful skater, though. :swoon:

aemeraldrainc
10-09-2011, 06:36 AM
I still think it was unfair, but then, life's unfair so not much of an argument on that end. :(
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. :)