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Macassar88
10-03-2011, 07:39 PM
Watched Alissa's LP here. Lots of potential.

I was slightly distraught by her score, but when I watched the performance, it will be incredible once she cleans up her landings which is doable, although the 3z-3t and 3sal will probably be long-term goals.

The 3z-3t looked much better than I thought it would [Mirai, take note!]

Worst case scenario, she can do 3z-2t at the beginning and just do a solo 3toe where the sal should be [if it comes to that]

I don't know if she should try the sal. I'm not sure whether she has the height to get a triple out of it.

fsfan22
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
The simple fact is she won by playing safe based on failure of others. She had 2 x 3:3 planned, but did not do either. When Sasha and Irina fell she did the sensible thing for the medal rather than for a glorious win putting up a life time best. There was less than 1 points separate the top 3 during SP.

Shizuka skated before Irina's performance (Irina skated last in the final flight) ... so she still had to go out and skate the performance without knowing what Irina was going to do.

fsfan22
10-03-2011, 07:47 PM
I don't know if she should try the sal. I'm not sure whether she has the height to get a triple out of it.

Agreed! She should either throw in a 2A instead or lose the 3Lz+3T and do a 2T instead and throw in a 3T where the 3S would be. I think she should keep trying to do the 3Lz+3T in competition for the grand prix and see if she can get it consistently rotated.

Pierre
10-03-2011, 07:53 PM
Kwan's Aranjuez is a masterpiece. However, it's silly to compare the two when Patrick isn't even using the same version.

Chan's is, well, Chan. Brilliant basics, several falls, and a lack of emotion that takes away from the beauty that is going on down below. His arms are getting better which is nice to see.

os168
10-03-2011, 07:54 PM
Shizuka skated before Irina's performance (Irina skated last in the final flight) ... so she still had to go out and skate the performance without knowing what Irina was going to do.

You got me there, my memory is a little blurred... but actually it support the theory that they totally went conservative, to secure at least a silver and took a gamble, a gamble that was paid off and won her the gold. No wonder this success has provided basis for Morozov's tactics from then on?

olympic
10-03-2011, 07:55 PM
^While watching the 3z-3t combo, I noted she got decent spring (by her standards) on the 3t. I actually sat back in my chair surprised. I think in the long term it's doable.

I would have to know how well practice with the 3sal is going before I make my own opinion on that.

skatesindreams
10-03-2011, 08:00 PM
I just finished watching Chan's LP on youtube and didn't think of Kwan once. :P Totally different approach. Messy skate but once that is skated clean it will be beautiful. It seems less busy than POTO but somehow still chock a block with footwork and transitions.

I totally agree!
I'm looking fowead to watching his program develop.

Okami
10-03-2011, 08:02 PM
Akiko Suzuki - Hungarian Rhapsody: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zVbJapmAJA
Akiko's new SP. Very addictive! :swoon:

Risa Shoji - Hacha Cha Cha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4KcwsSKbW4
She landed 3S-3T!

Digest - Jeff, Alissa, S/S, Artur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6SvgR837iA
I feel deprived of the whole version of "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger". :mad:

Macassar88
10-03-2011, 08:05 PM
All this talk about the Olympics reminds me that Slutskaya threw away twelve points when she could have won... (3lo becomes 2lo, fall on 3 lo, 3f becomes 2f)

Vagabond
10-03-2011, 08:10 PM
Yep "this" -- an iconic performance that has been studied and copied on a number of levels, but Weir is the sport’s favorite whipping boy, so pooh-poohing and largely dismissing any possible contribution by him and downplaying his inspirational impact is par for the course....

With my phrasing “invented” I may be exaggerating on the opposite end of those who snicker or bristle whenever Weir’s name is mentioned.

aftershocks, there's nothing wrong with being an uber, but could you at least be an uber with a sense of history? :saint:

Leaving aside the fact that Weir could do all six triples, the aspects of his performance that you admire so much aren't really so very different from what Toller Cranston (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGDW0yNQDiY&feature=related) and Charlie Tickner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNImLRliFU) (to name just two) were doing back in the 1970's.

arakwafan2006
10-03-2011, 08:14 PM
I just watched some videos.

I really enjoyed Liza, more than I ever have. She has things to improve, but loads of potential!

I think Alissa is in the beginning stages of what could be a great LP. It's definitely a work in progress, but I can see the potential of what could be w/ time!

I'm meh on Patrick Chan. I watch his programs every season hoping to be moved and see what everyone else sees, but I find him beyond boring. He is watchable b/c of his amazing skating skills. I enjoy his speed and smoothness. But the choreography to this music is :huh:

I agree with you 100% actually. The only thing i didnt like about Alizza's program is that Valse is SUPER slow and Alissa already expresses little by way of attacking a program. Otherwise, its beautiful. The thing that i like about Pasquale's choreopgraphy is that he doesnt change things big time in a skater. That being said, its also something i DONT like about his programs. time will tell though. She is fortunate enough to have in house choreographer's so thats great.

Chan's program bored me though. I dont ever have to hear that damn Aranjuez music again. Also, Patrick does this weird thing with his hands that bothers me. Otherwise, if he does 2 quads or even the 3 he talked about and kept everything else together, he will smash the competition. Style preferences aside, Lori has woven exquisite tapestry.

arakwafan2006
10-03-2011, 08:18 PM
I almost forgot. Not only am i so glad to see Alissa try the lutz toe combination but i am also that they changed her entrance into 3 flip from mohawk to 3 turn. If she could skate with more speed and authority and conviction, she would be as far as the scoring goes much like Yu Na IMO

Louise
10-03-2011, 08:21 PM
^While watching the 3z-3t combo, I noted she got decent spring (by her standards) on the 3t. I actually sat back in my chair surprised. I think in the long term it's doable.

I would have to know how well practice with the 3sal is going before I make my own opinion on that.

Is there a bonus now for including all triples (minus the axel) in a program? I know that years ago it was suggested on FSU. I can't imagine why else Czisny would add the 3sal back in. You'd think that she would just put a 2axel in there and hope to get +GOE instead of risking a fall or pop on the salchow.

Mao started putting all the jumps back in last year too, so I'm wondering if there is a new bonus. I personally think a skater should be required to show mastery of each jump take-off, so if someone cannot do a 3sal they would be stuck doing a 2sal (such as in a sequence)

olympic
10-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Is there a bonus now for including all triples (minus the axel) in a program? I know that years ago it was suggested on FSU. I can't imagine why else Czisny would add the 3sal back in. You'd think that she would just put a 2axel in there and hope to get +GOE instead of risking a fall or pop on the salchow.

Mao started putting all the jumps back in last year too, so I'm wondering if there is a new bonus. I personally think a skater should be required to show mastery of each jump take-off, so if someone cannot do a 3sal they would be stuck doing a 2sal (such as in a sequence)

I don't think so. I think Alissa and Mao are challenging themselves.

peibeck
10-03-2011, 08:34 PM
Until I watched these programs I guess I wasn't aware of how much snooze inducing music some of my favorites were doing this season. :(

While I am heartened by the progress in Alissa's jumps, that program is AWFUL. It is completely lacking in choreography and transitions.

Why is Leonova ruining one of my favorite pieces of music (Barber's "Adagio") with that awful rendition and even worse Morosov choreography? :scream: Alena is perky, not melodic. This music choice is a disaster for her.

At least I loved Miki's dress. :shuffle:

Liza, great jumps... but her weird arm usage, her hunched shoulders, that wretched layback, the ugly spiral, and her bent leg in her spins? Calm down people, she's got a LONG way to go. :P

Suzuki: :rollin: Loved her program, she was the highlight for me.

Nice to see Rochette and Buttle back on the ice. Now if they both came back this could be a much more interesting season. :saint:

Chan: I didn't find the falls all that distracting, he was right back up and into the program. Certainly not his greatest skate, but I didn't find his PCS 'outrageous' (perhaps a little high) as some people here.

Kozuka: Love his blade work. :swoon: Hate the shirt.

Gachinski: Glad to see him leaving his Plushenko-flailing behind and discovering himself as a skater. :cheer: That being said, the only real choreography is in the footwork sequences, and the transitions are so simple compared to Kozuka, Takahasi and Chan.

Takahasi: I like seeing him try something new, but "Blues For Klook" makes my ears bleed. Still, I managed to cover my ears and admire that gorgeous circular step sequence.

I haven't watched Amodio. :shuffle: