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doubleflutz
10-03-2011, 07:15 AM
The reason I chose Flatt was because the discussion stemmed from skaters who had both squeaky-clean programs and complete trainwrecks in the same season. Any ideas of someone else who's recently had that kind of season? I'd totally love to do this again; it was actually kind of fun!

Mao last season! She didn't have anything completely flawless because of UR calls, but she had a pretty broad range, all things considered.

Sasha'sSpins
10-03-2011, 07:45 AM
I blame her mother. Should have pushed harder. ;)

:lol:

Oh boohoo I missed the entire thing including pbp! That's what I get for visiting family in Orlando and having too much fun at Disney World! :D

Thank you SOO much Midori for your always stellar reports-very much appreciated you totally ROCK!! :respec:


I especially want to see the ladies event! It sounds like Elizaveta ROCKED it and poor Miki bombed-badly. :(

I said this in another thread-the young guns are coming. They're going to keep the vets on their toe picks. I love Mirai but I think she should consider at least attempting her triple/triples again in the next year to keep up.

I love love love that Alissa went for a triple/triple!! I also love that Joannie showed up after so much time and did well enough for second!

Congrats to Team NA on the win!

ETA: Just got to watch some vids-Roxanne and Miruna you guys ROCK thank you so much for posting these! :respec:

Japanfan
10-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Patrick's 'Aranjuez' can't touch Kwan's 2003 Nats version, IMO (and yes, I'm aware that his program must be more complex and has more transitions and what not).

How can you compare a Nationals program to a pre-season first-time-out (or second?) with a program? Aside from that, why compare a man's COP 2011 program to a ladies' 2003 6.0 program? Overlaying a signature piece for Kwan onto Patrick's new program is really quite pointless, especially given the differences in the music.

If it is all about Kwan, maybe you should watch Kwan skate 'Aranjuez' rather than 'Chan'. You're certainly entitled to your favourite skaters and performances, but this is not a thread about Kwan.

senorita
10-03-2011, 08:48 AM
I :swoon: over Akiko, Diva Liza, Dai 's gorgeous new program and Ex, and Hanyu in Carnival was :rollin:!
Kozuka has the best music choice for an Lp in men right now, and Amodio the worst costume ever, i couldnt watch the program. And I m not sure what I dislike more, Leonova's sp or lp..
Arthur has a tale fabric in his costume again and i got distracted, but he looked matured, i like his music choices this season. I m sure Chan will skate this program better by the end of season, but it starts annoying me that Nichol gives all the same warhorses to her top skaters. With his talent he could have had and pay justice to much more original programs, I hope Nichol wont give him Salome next season. I want him free from Nichol as much as I want Amodio free from Morozov.

edit: For some reason I forgot Alissa 's program

mrinalini
10-03-2011, 10:54 AM
How can you compare a Nationals program to a pre-season first-time-out (or second?) with a program? Aside from that, why compare a man's COP 2011 program to a ladies' 2003 6.0 program? Overlaying a signature piece for Kwan onto Patrick's new program is really quite pointless, especially given the differences in the music.

If it is all about Kwan, maybe you should watch Kwan skate 'Aranjuez' rather than 'Chan'. You're certainly entitled to your favourite skaters and performances, but this is not a thread about Kwan.

I was responding more to MR-FAN's comment that Patrick's program is the definitive performance to Aranjuez - I should have quoted his post when I made the comparison. I realize that Kwan skated to a different version of the piece, but to me the music, the melody is similar enough that comparisons can be made. And please, comparisons are made all the time between pre and post-COP programs - have you taken umbrage when those comparisons were made, too, or perhaps you just didn't bother those times because a Canadian wasn't involved?

IMO, what really sets Kwan's 2003 Nats FS (and I'm only really a fan of the Nats version, not the much more hyped Worlds one) apart from Patrick's LP is how emotive she was whereas I found Patrick's interpretation rather soulless. And Kwan (plus other skaters, too, I'm sure) has given a number of fine performances when presenting programs for the first time at smaller events, so I don't entirely buy that 'first-time jitters' excuse.

Oh, and I'll continue to watch and comment on Chan or Kwan or whoever else I please, thank you very much. Feel free to ignore my opinions if they offend your sensibilities so.

bek
10-03-2011, 11:01 AM
I was responding more to MR-FAN's comment that Patrick's program is the definitive performance to Aranjuez - I should have quoted his post when I made the comparison. I realize that Kwan skated to a different version of the piece, but to me the music, the melody is similar enough that comparisons can be made. And please, comparisons are made all the time between pre and post-COP programs - have you taken umbrage when those comparisons were made, too, or perhaps you just didn't bother those times because a Canadian wasn't involved?

IMO, what really sets Kwan's 2003 Nats FS (and I'm only really a fan of the Nats version, not the much more hyped Worlds one) apart from Patrick's LP is how emotive she was whereas I found Patrick's interpretation rather soulless. And Kwan (plus other skaters, too, I'm sure) has given a number of fine performances when presenting programs for the first time at smaller events, so I don't entirely buy that 'first-time jitters' excuse.

Oh, and I'll continue to watch and comment on Chan or Kwan or whoever else I please, thank you very much. Feel free to ignore my opinions if they offend your sensibilities so.

Michelle and Patrick are different skaters. Some skaters struggle early on and then peak later on. Some don't. Patrick has always skated better later on in the season. So it is a pretty good excuse. Everyone has different training regimes. I just think Patrick's scores should reflect when he's not at his best. To be quite frank did Michelle even compete this early?

I can't believe I'm defending Patrick but Michelle also pretty much did the same jump content year after year. Maybe not in placement of programs but just in general. Chan's having to do things like quads which he's still getting use to (and his triple axel is always shaky) quads and triple axels take a lot more energy than the regular triples. Its easier to be consistent early on when your doing the same types of jumps that are already pretty much down and consistent. If Michelle as trying to add in more difficult 3/3s we might have seen some of her earlier programs a bit more inconsistent.

I think Patrick is a big stiff though in this program but maybe it will get better in time after he gets use to the program. By nationals Michelle likely had a lot more mileage training wise in her program.

But seriously too, two different skaters and different systems as well COP requires alot more out of the skater with all of the elements.

kwanette
10-03-2011, 11:22 AM
To be quite frank did Michelle even compete this early?


Yes, in the fall of 2002 she introduced Aranjuez at a Cheesefest in Florida.

mrinalini
10-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Yes, in the fall of 2002 she introduced Aranjuez at a Cheesefest in Florida.

Was that the performance in which she wore a lime-coloured dress? If that's the one, I think she made one or two errors but it was still a lovely skate.

Also, Lori wasn't the one who choreographed Michelle's Aranjuez so I'm not sure why she's being criticized for giving the piece to Kwan and then to Chan. Oh well, being Lori she must have given it to a couple of skaters besides Kwan (Joannie, I think?) so I guess the criticism still stands. :lol:

mrinalini
10-03-2011, 12:01 PM
Michelle and Patrick are different skaters. Some skaters struggle early on and then peak later on. Some don't. Patrick has always skated better later on in the season. So it is a pretty good excuse. Everyone has different training regimes. I just think Patrick's scores should reflect when he's not at his best. To be quite frank did Michelle even compete this early?

I can't believe I'm defending Patrick but Michelle also pretty much did the same jump content year after year. Maybe not in placement of programs but just in general. Chan's having to do things like quads which he's still getting use to (and his triple axel is always shaky) quads and triple axels take a lot more energy than the regular triples. Its easier to be consistent early on when your doing the same types of jumps that are already pretty much down and consistent. If Michelle as trying to add in more difficult 3/3s we might have seen some of her earlier programs a bit more inconsistent.

I think Patrick is a big stiff though in this program but maybe it will get better in time after he gets use to the program. By nationals Michelle likely had a lot more mileage training wise in her program.

But seriously too, two different skaters and different systems as well COP requires alot more out of the skater with all of the elements.

Didn't I mention earlier that Patrick could get better with this program as he gains more mileage on it?

And yes, I get that Chan has to quad this and quint that and complicate this and embellish that (I mentioned this in my OP, too, which I'm sure you missed), but I still think that Kwan's 2003 Nats LP trounces this particular performance of Patrick's at the Japan Open. I wouldn't even have brought up Kwan in this thread if Patrick wasn't skating to the same music and if her name hadn't already been mentioned.

Patrick could get more emotive with this program as the season progresses (and really, the emoting is why I think Michelle's version is so good), but to be honest I don't think he will if history is anything to go by. I've always had this criticism of Patrick - his skating skills are peerless and he glides around so effortlessly but his performances are always a bit flat to me (even at the big events).

Bottom line, bek: I get that you have this love/hate, passive/aggressive thing going on with Patrick, but he really doesn't need any defending here...at least from me, hah!

Japanfan
10-03-2011, 12:07 PM
I was responding more to MR-FAN's comment that Patrick's program is the definitive performance to Aranjuez - I should have quoted his post when I made the comparison.


Did he compare it to Kwan? Is so, my posts apply to him as well. If he just said it is definitive, that's his opinion.


And please, comparisons are made all the time between pre and post-COP programs - have you taken umbrage when those comparisons were made, too, or perhaps you just didn't bother those times because a Canadian wasn't involved?


Oh Please. I most certainly would find a similar comparison to be pointless, particularly since you are comparing a Nationals program with miles on it to one with far less miles.

And I would certainly find a similar comparison to be annoying if the point of the comparison were to indulge in The Kween is the Best None Compare mantra. Or to use any skater's 'iconic performance' as the standard by which to view another skater who uses the same music.

This may or may not be a signature skate for Patrick but that doesn't mean isn't a solid or wonderful program. Kween had non-signature skates as well.



And Kwan (plus other skaters, too, I'm sure) has given a number of fine performances when presenting programs for the first time at smaller events, so I don't entirely buy that 'first-time jitters' excuse.


Programs take time to perfect, even for Kween.



Oh, and I'll continue to watch and comment on Chan or Kwan or whoever else I please, thank you very much.

You're welcome and I'm sure you will.

DickButtonFan
10-03-2011, 12:16 PM
I didn't see this posted yet, sorry if it already has been:

Miki Ando: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKTuIah2i8

Primorskaya
10-03-2011, 12:45 PM
I didn't see this posted yet, sorry if it already has been:

Miki Ando: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKTuIah2i8

Aah thanks, I've been looking for this. Even though it's going to be painful to watch.

On another note: I want to kick Amodio's (and Morozov's) arse so bad right now. Please someone tell me this...thing is not his actual LP that we're going to have to sit through for the entire season but his EX and that he's just trolling about. :scream: Totally hated how he was demanding claps from the audience twice, especially after f-ing up on his jumps. This isn't a "proper" ISU competition but still. You are not a rock star. And I used to like that boy...

Frau Muller
10-03-2011, 02:14 PM
RESULTS:

Ladies - Final Results

PL Competitor Nationality Points
1. Elizaveta TUKTAMISHEVA RUS 118.59
2. Joannie ROCHETTE CAN 112.74
3. Akiko SUZUKI JPN 112.46
4. Alena LEONOVA RUS 108.39
5. Alissa CZISNY USA 107.64
6. Miki ANDO JPN 88.11

Men - Final Results

PL Competitor Nationality Points
1. Patrick CHAN CAN 159.93
2. Artur GACHINSKI RUS 152.71
3. Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 148.21
4. Jeffrey BUTTLE CAN 138.33
5. Florent AMODIO FRA 138.25
6. Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN 130.79

Gee, I think there are some surprises here, n'est ce pas? When, in Ladies, you have the reigning US champ and reigning World Champ end up in the last 2 spots...and the new kid on the block beat the reigning World champion by a 30+ points in one program?! Holey moley.

As for Liza....:rollin: Love her!!! Also very impressed by Joannie, coming in 2nd with such a tough group and only 6 pts from 1st placed Liza.

fsfan22
10-03-2011, 02:24 PM
I love love LOVE that Jeff and Joannie both revived their 2004/05 season's LPs!

shine
10-03-2011, 02:27 PM
It was a treat watching Joannie skate to this Firebird program 6 years after. One can really see how much she has grown as a performer. Despite the jump errors, she really made the program come alive. She skates with so much freedom and expression now. Dare I say that she never truly did the choreography justice until now. And her arms are just AMAZING, some of the most expressive ever. Wow!

And I get this incredible feeling everytime I watch Jeff's Naqoyqatsi, no matter how many times I've seen it. It's genius, period.