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aftershocks
10-02-2011, 04:04 AM
This isn't sanctioned by the ISU though. ;)

Can't blame Speedy for everything. :lol:

Why not? I bet he enjoys taking credit when its not due, and basks in the glow of his esteemed position, while siphoning off revenue to speedskating that was earned by figure skaters.

Japanfan
10-02-2011, 04:04 AM
Chan is a wonderfully talented and accomplished skater with edges and judges' marks to die for, fans and apologists aplenty. I will look forward to seeing his Aranjuez skate, but when I hear that music, images of the Kween will definitely come to mind. I doubt that Chan's skate will erase those images. Why does Lori constantly use music for other skaters originally choreographed for Kwan? Is it an effort to conjure a similar magic?


A lot of skaters use the same music and the Kween doesn't own them. I don't even remember Kwan's Aranjuez and associate the music with Takeshi Honda (2002 Olympics), it's one of my favourite programs.

It's best to be open to different interpretations of music. A person may have a bias in that the music is associated with a certain skater or programs, and that becomes the standard for the music. Even so, other skaters can use the same music uniquely or brilliantly. I always associate Turandot with Shen and Zhao, but was blown away by Arakawa when she skated to it. Likewise, Shen and Zhao interpreted 'Meditation from Thais' beautifully. It was signature piece for B&S but S/Z didn't even remember that B&S had skated to it. Their interpretation was uniquely their own.

gkelly
10-02-2011, 04:16 AM
Skater A is not judged on how well he/she skated from event A in comparison to how he/she did in event B. Skater A is being judged in comparison to how skaters B, C, D, E, F, G, H, and I skated in said event. It appears that PCS tend to build for a skater based on their maturity, experience, whether they have a World/Olympic medal, and if momentum is in their favor.

Well, technically, under the IJS skater A should be judged in comparison to each judge's mental image of 8.0 or 9.0 or whatever PCS they're thinking of giving, and ideally all the judges should have similar ideas of the level of skating that each of those scores represents.

In practice, of course, there's plenty of variation for various reasons.

But it's not like 6.0 where later skaters' scores were specifically given to be higher or lower than those of the previous skaters in the event, where the point of the judges' job was to rank the skaters against each other.

Now they're just supposed to score the skating against a standard.

But in either case they can't score the skater against the skater's previous performances. In most cases they won't have judged those previous performances and won't remember exactly how the skater skated* even if they did see the performance.

*And what jumps the skater landed or how many mistakes they made are only a tiny part of what they're judging.


This isn't sanctioned by the ISU though. ;)

Can't blame Speedy for everything. :lol:

Well, it's not run by the ISU like Worlds, etc., but it is certainly sanctioned by them, or else all the participants would lose eligibility.

aftershocks
10-02-2011, 04:18 AM
Kween does "own" Aranjuez in her iconic skates in 2003. Skaters can skate to whatever music they wish to skate to, and many have used the same music and owned it by their own unique interpretations. Otonal by Butryskaya and Weir comes immediately to mind, also Dr. Zhivago and The Swan, skated by Weir and later by Alissa C. If you can borrow and/ or be inspired by another skater's style and/or music, but make it completely your own with your own brand of magic, kudos!

As I said, I will be interested to see Chan's interpretation. And still, I ask the question, "Why does Lori tend to use the same music originally choreographed for Kwan?"

pinky166
10-02-2011, 04:27 AM
Pictures:
http://dethspiralz.tumblr.com/post/10893354388/northxnorthwest-warmuse-ohtheseskaters

I think Miki's costume would be pretty without the sleeves. I like Tuktamysheva's.

I like Liza's dress too, but looking at that picture, she is still sooo tiny. Her ISU bio listing her as 156 cm is clearly WAY off because she's barely over Miki's shoulder and Miki isn't even tall for a skater. I worry about Liza losing her jumps when she grows because she will eventually and clearly hasn't yet. Even if she stays small I doubt she stays THIS small. That's awesome she won though and hope she can take the puberty monster in stride

Sylvia
10-02-2011, 04:49 AM
This isn't sanctioned by the ISU though. ;)
Not sure what you mean by "sanctioned" in this context, but the Japan Open uses ISU officials (including an international technical panel and judges) and this event is listed on the ISU's calendar.

ETA: This news video includes some clips from Takahiko Kozuka's Japan Open FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9IQfLxkdY

MR-FAN
10-02-2011, 05:29 AM
Not sure what you mean by "sanctioned" in this context, but the Japan Open uses ISU officials (including an international technical panel and judges) and this event is listed on the ISU's calendar.

ETA: This news video includes some clips from Takahiko Kozuka's Japan Open FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9IQfLxkdY

Wow, I can't wait to see this. Looks amazing

And Takahashi... what can I say. This LP is a MONSTER! When he skates it clean, it'll be legendary.

Iceman
10-02-2011, 05:41 AM
I blame her mother. Should have pushed harder. ;)


Or had a c-section

Vagabond
10-02-2011, 07:15 AM
I blame her mother. Should have pushed harder. ;)

Skating has enough pushy mothers already. :shuffle:

Japanfan
10-02-2011, 10:15 AM
Kween does "own" Aranjuez in her iconic skates in 2003.


She doesn't own it. You can say it was a signature piece and you can even she 'owned' the music when she performed it. But the music does not belong to her. It doesn't matter whether or not her skates to the music were iconic. I don't think even remember those performances as I'm not a huge Kween fan. For me the music is associated with Honda.

Whether another skater will also create a signature or iconic piece from the music is another matter. But it certainly does happen that different skaters are remembered for the same pieces of music. There have been quite a few signature Carmens.



If you can borrow and/ or be inspired by another skater's style and/or music, but make it completely your own with your own brand of magic, kudos!


You don't need to borrow or be inspired by other skaters who use the same music - the inspiration can be internal and a personal response to or resonance with the music. As I pointed out earlier, S/Z weren't even aware that B/S had skated to Meditation, or didn't remember.

Also, coaches often pick the music and as we all know, the same music is used over and over again, and then some. I expect skaters most often do not review the performances that have in done in the past to the music they are using.



As I said, I will be interested to see Chan's interpretation. And still, I ask the question, "Why does Lori tend to use the same music originally choreographed for Kwan?"

Because the Kween is not the center of the universe and everything in FS does not revolve around her. It's simple: Lori likes the music and thought it might work for Patrick, and Patrick agreed.

When you say "originally choreographed for Kwan" you suggest that she was the first to skate to it - which I doubt - and imply that Lori is using her choreography for Michelle in Patrick's program. I'm quite sure her choreography for Patrick's program will also be original.

Honda and other have also skated to Aranjuez. More skaters will use the music in future. It's a popular piece of music, that's why Lori and others use it. And each time it's choreographed, it is original. Yes, skaters do borrow choreography from time to time. But usually, original choreography is the goal - especially for the top skaters. Even if copying was the goal, one skater's choreography very often wouldn't work for another.

shine
10-02-2011, 10:41 AM
I thought Joannie Rochette's interpretation of Aranjeuz was way better than Kwan's. I mean it's great that Michelle was so happy skating it but there really wasn't much choreography in her butchered version :slinkaway

os168
10-02-2011, 11:35 AM
:lol:

According to twitter, Patrick's scheduled flight to Japan was canceled, and I heard he rumor that he had to wait for the next day at the connecting airport. I won't blame him if he does not train but soaked himself in the anime while he is stranded in the airport :P.

Hee thanks for the updates Midori, I knew these Kawaii anime girls were trouble when they appeared on Patrick's vid... sadly my instinct were right! Actually all things considered, falling 3 times might not be a bad thing. The last time he fell 3 times, he managed to go clean next right? So the odds are in his favour.

On the other hand, I absolutely adore Daisuke's new FS program despite the obvious jump issues. Not sure what happened (when was the knee surgery he was suppose to have done, was it recent?). When he is able to re-tune/recover his condition back, this could be a masterful stunning piece of work regardless of the quadless content.

Inspired choice and perfect program for Daisuke really. Love the minimalist approach designed to highlight the skating, sensitivity and control of the skater. Only the most musically expressive and sensitive can handle these type of program like Daisuke or Yuna Kim. Everyone else will just get lost in to the vague, hazy and languid structure. Measured change in subtlety is the key and missing a beat would certainly ruin everything.

The Ry Cooder esque melancholy Blues mixed with a touch of the Franco romantic techno that reminded me of Eric Serra's scene changing Nikita OST. It would be great if this can inspire skaters to be a bit more braver with their music selections. Hope Dai can fix the jump issues, can't wait to see it again!

Moka-Ananas
10-02-2011, 11:42 AM
can't wait for the videos of Gachinski and Tuktamysheva!

Primorskaya
10-02-2011, 12:43 PM
Yay! Thanks for the Dai video. Looking forward to him performing that to the max when he's in better shape, he does look a bit knackered here. The music suits him well.

I'm sharing the almost general irritation at PChan not getting dinged as much (or at all) as others when he falls. I wouldn't even mind his scores being on steroids -after all, he doesn't award them to himself- if he showed some humility. But he's either not even aware of that little scoring issue, or chooses to ignore it and acts like he deserves every point. Which is what rankles with many people I reckon. That IV of him vapouring on about dominating the sport like Ferderer does/did in tennis still makes me break out in hives when I think about it.

Very impatient to see what the other skaters did!

casken
10-02-2011, 12:47 PM
OMG Takahashi's LP is fabulous. Easily my favorite LP he had done. :kickass:

I just hope he skates it to it's full potential at least once this season.