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View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



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PDilemma
06-24-2011, 02:35 AM
You are right. It is really hard to predict early in quads for ladies especialy.

All your examples are true. But then we get to 2007 when everyone guessed the 2010 gold would be between Kim and Asada...and they went one and two.

So who knows what the trend will be with the changed scoring system which is only it its second full quad.

Marco
06-24-2011, 02:35 AM
I recall Czisny getting dumped on when she tanked in 2009...I think it was just as nasty, perhaps even MORE so, than what Flatt is getting now. The one who I noticed got away with less flack and more forgiveness, for whatever reason, was Nagasu in 2010. I was even amazed that some people chose to point to Flatt's 9th as the reason we lost 3 spots that year, ignoring that if Nagasu hadn't fallen on the - 2A - she would have been THIRD!!! and 3+9=12, 12<13 does it not? :P

Basically, the same skater has not failed twice. In 2008 it was basically the whole team underperforming (especially Wagner though), in 2009 it was Czisny, in 2010 it was Nagasu and this time it was Flatt. One gets the feeling it was "just not meant to be" at this point. I do hope we get some fresh blood among the US's elite ladies. I admit to getting a bit bored with the current crop, although if Nagasu could pull herself together, she could be great I think.

Flatt went to 2010 Worlds as the reigning National Champion and "the rock" and carried the burden, and underperformed big time from her 5th place the previous season. Not regaining the 3rd spot in 2010 was not Nagasu, or at least not primarily Nagasu to blame, especially since Nagasu still placed ahead of her overall. For 3 years in a row, Flatt was part of a 2 ppl team where she was the rock and the other was an inconsistent medal potential. She only did her part as 'the rock" in 2009.

So yes, Flatt has failed twice (2010, 2011).

RD
06-24-2011, 02:44 AM
Flatt went to 2010 Worlds as the reigning National Champion and "the rock" and carried the burden, and underperformed big time from her 5th place the previous season. Not regaining the 3rd spot in 2010 was not Nagasu, or at least not primarily Nagasu's to blame.


While I understand that Flatt didn't perform to the best of her ability either, I cannot agree that it's not primarily Nagasu's fault. Out of the two, obviously Nagasu had the potential for placing higher. After all, she came into worlds being 4th at the Olympics and- get this- THE LEADER after the short program. If she only had a couple of mistakes overall to place 7th, fine...but the girl melted down. one 2A fall away from medaling. Sorry, but Nagasu was just as big a part at the 2010 failure as Flatt was for the 2011 one.

Still though, I don't want to get deep into this blame game stuff. Honestly, you can point fingers at any/all of the 6 skaters who have been on World teams since 2008: Meissner, Liang, Wagner, Flatt, Nagasu, Czisny. Speaking in GENERAL terms, it's really not one skater's fault in particular...it's more the sub-par state of American ladies. Hopefully there are better days ahead.

Marco
06-24-2011, 02:46 AM
I STILL don't get why so many are saying this. She broke a rule; the USFS decided to fine/reprimand her. Seriously, if they really wanted her out, they would have suspended or banned her. Articles said repeatedly that this decision DOES NOT AFFECT her eligibility, so she is free to continue if she wishes.

She was going to go to college anyway, and I think that more than anything will determine whether she continues to keep skating at this level or not.

She will be exiled not because she broke a rule, but because her only selling point is no longer valid, and hasn't been for 2 seasons really.

RD
06-24-2011, 02:49 AM
She will be exiled not because she broke a rule, but because her only selling point is no longer valid, and hasn't been for 2 seasons really.

Well, but let's be real honest- the only person who could "exile" her- is Flatt herself. It's up to her to fight back and prove that GPF and Worlds were flukes. If she doesn't, and lets her failures get to her, then of course she's toast. But not because of USFS- because of HER.

Marco
06-24-2011, 02:53 AM
Flatt was actually robbed at 2009 US nationals by dubious judgings. To the lesser extent, the judges prevented Flatt from winning her first title in 2008. I guess some of the USFS officials and judges felt sorry for Flatt and as a result, huge markups for Flatt have occured in 2010.

I don't think the judges purposely held her down in 2008 and 2009. The jumps were her only advantage over Nagasu in 2008 and Czisny in 2009. The judges did the right thing then. It's just like Bobek over Kwan at 1995 Nationals and Worlds. 2009 was just a poor Nationals. The only clean performances came from Flatt and Zhang who just weren't good enough skaters to command high PCS.

The only thing that sealed the deal for Flatt's inevitable title in 2010 was her 5th place finish at Worlds in 2009 and no other Olympic hopeful coming close to that at that point. Ultimately the wrong bet was made because the international judges did like Nagasu a whole lot better than they did Flatt and Nagasu actually delivered at the Olympics (well, Flatt did too but no one really cared).

Marco
06-24-2011, 03:05 AM
While I understand that Flatt didn't perform to the best of her ability either, I cannot agree that it's not primarily Nagasu's fault. Out of the two, obviously Nagasu had the potential for placing higher. After all, she came into worlds being 4th at the Olympics and- get this- THE LEADER after the short program. If she only had a couple of mistakes overall to place 7th, fine...but the girl melted down. one 2A fall away from medaling. Sorry, but Nagasu was just as big a part at the 2010 failure as Flatt was for the 2011 one.

:rolleyes:

What's the point of sending Flatt if she can't deliver? She is named the rock by her own coach to give her a selling point. It's her only selling point. If she had skated cleanly and placed as high as she could and US still didn't have a 3rd spot back, then it would have been Nagasu's problem.

Nagasu was picked for 2010 not because she was a medal hopeful (she hasn't competed in any senior international championship yet), but because she was a medal potential for the future and needed the experience. She was known to be inconsistent. I don't think anyone was placing bets on her.

Marco
06-24-2011, 03:09 AM
Well, but let's be real honest- the only person who could "exile" her- is Flatt herself. It's up to her to fight back and prove that GPF and Worlds were flukes. If she doesn't, and lets her failures get to her, then of course she's toast. But not because of USFS- because of HER.

If we are being really honest, then I think she will be very stupid to come back. The international judges already don't like her skating, and now she has pissed off USFS as well and hasn't delivered at Worlds / Olympics for 2 seasons. She hasn't been consistent and even her jumps are a mess. What's her value?

On the bright side, she is Jr World Champion, US Champion, has been to 3 Worlds and to 1 Olympics. That's pretty impressive given her lack of talent. She is now going to college. Time to start a new phrase of her life - especially when there's really no reason for her to look back.

She can come back all she wants, but I doubt we will see a PCS over 7 ever again even at Nationals and all that ugly flutz/lip thing, cheated combinations and poor spins will be penalised big time.

nubka
06-24-2011, 03:18 AM
No, I want Rachael to come back well and with her jump arsenal in tact. Though the performances at World were subpar there were some beautiful moments.
I think she did a much improved spiral----back glide into leg lift. And the position of her free leg in the layback is first rate and she did get a level 4 for her footwork which doesn't happen often. I think Rachael will want to try to redeem herself.

Even before this event, she has been cruelly crticized. You would think she was the worst skater in the world, but the fact is she is still in the top ten of the world according to isu rankings.

WORD! :)

purple skates
06-24-2011, 03:37 AM
On the bright side, she is Jr World Champion, US Champion, has been to 3 Worlds and to 1 Olympics. That's pretty impressive given her lack of talent.

Seriously? You don't get to the serious elite level without talent. Nobody does. Just because you may not like her style or skill set doesn't mean she doesn't have talent.

----(getting general here)--------

The hate in this thread is mind boggling. This is a young woman trying be the best she can at a sport she (presumably) loves. Why hate on her for it? I can absolutely understand being upset about breaking the rule. However some of the stuff in here is just plain spiteful.

judgejudy27
06-24-2011, 03:56 AM
:rolleyes:

What's the point of sending Flatt if she can't deliver? She is named the rock by her own coach to give her a selling point. It's her only selling point. If she had skated cleanly and placed as high as she could and US still didn't have a 3rd spot back, then it would have been Nagasu's problem.


I agree. Flatt is being backed by the USFSA not for her medal winning potential which obviously does not exist, and never existed. It is for her supposed consistency, her supposably being the rock, and supposably having a good chance of finishing somewhere between 5th-8th by skating 2 clean programs, getting good marks, and pecking off others who make enough mistakes. Thus helping the U.S's chances to reach the magic 13 to gain 2 spots. With only 2 women Flatt is supposed the be the reliable one with a flashier skater with more medal potential as the other.

Flatt at the last 2 Worlds has failed to deliver a finish between 5th-8th. She has not skated close to cleanly. She has not done her expected part to help the U.S gain 3 spots.

Since her consistency can no longer be counted on to help the U.S I dont see what purpose she serves anymore.

judgejudy27
06-24-2011, 03:59 AM
All your examples are true. But then we get to 2007 when everyone guessed the 2010 gold would be between Kim and Asada...and they went one and two.

So who knows what the trend will be with the changed scoring system which is only it its second full quad.

This is very true.

However looking at the current ladies field can we even try to predict anything for 2014 in this case. Ando is the current World Champion but who seriously expects anything from her in 2014 at age 26. Kim and Asada are huge question marks. The Russians are unproven until we see what they do in Seniors when the chance comes. And the U.S ladies are still up in the air.

judgejudy27
06-24-2011, 04:00 AM
If we are being really honest, then I think she will be very stupid to come back. The international judges already don't like her skating, and now she has pissed off USFS as well and hasn't delivered at Worlds / Olympics for 2 seasons. She hasn't been consistent and even her jumps are a mess. What's her value?

On the bright side, she is Jr World Champion, US Champion, has been to 3 Worlds and to 1 Olympics. That's pretty impressive given her lack of talent. She is now going to college. Time to start a new phrase of her life - especially when there's really no reason for her to look back.

She can come back all she wants, but I doubt we will see a PCS over 7 ever again even at Nationals and all that ugly flutz/lip thing, cheated combinations and poor spins will be penalised big time.

I agree with all of this as well.

Cheylana
06-24-2011, 04:04 AM
If we are being really honest, then I think she will be very stupid to come back.
If we are being really honest, we would conclude that it is stupid for us to think we know what is best for Flatt or any other skater.

purple skates
06-24-2011, 04:07 AM
:wall: Ok, I usually just lurk in these kinds of threads but I am feeling feisty.

You know, y'all, maybe the US doesn't have three spots because we don't have the girls who have the consistency/skill set/whatever to get them. From US Nats 1st to US Nats 5th. It's just not there (including Miss Inconsistency Marai altough that can and hopefully will change) and all the angst and slamming US skaters and whatever isn't going to change that. Just because we are the United States of America doesn't give us the right to figure skating ladies supremacy. US Figure Skating cannot change that. There's some darn good non-American ladies out there right now, and that must be taken into consideration when talking about two vs three spots. That, and the new judging system doesn't forgive mistakes like the old system did, and this current crop of American ladies tends to make a lot of them.