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View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



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TheIronLady
06-23-2011, 01:06 PM
I would too. IMO the only things that program need are a better costume and a little tweaking in the footwork section.

She has made some unhelpful choices with her programs and costumes. EoE worked well and should be improved. It brought out balance in her skating and it emphasized her maturity. But I expect we will see an even uglier color dress next year. Left to her own devices, she seems to go in unflattering directions.

...

Yazmeen
06-23-2011, 02:12 PM
I prefer all of Alissa, Mirai and Ashley to Rachael. But, I respect Rachael for the most part [the jury is still out for me on exactly what happened here. I just have a hunch that Tom Z. was breathing down her neck for his glory] and I hope she continues to compete. US ladies can only benefit from her continuing, because her normal consistency [in most cases] forces the others and my faves to try harder and give their best on the ice

Even if she's not my fave, I'm getting a little uncomfortable w/ the hate that she is getting here. It's been going on for a while now. Why the frustration? Not getting 3 spots. Mirai and Alissa are just as guilty in years past [and they are my faves]

As are Kimmie, Bebe, and even Ashley (2008) and Nancy Kerrigan and Lisa Ervin and Tonia Kwiatkowski in 1993. And that one really cost Nancy dearly, there have always been strong opinions that she "lost" the OGM to Oksana because of her poor performance in the freeskate at 93 worlds and Oksana winning that championship (but let's not go any further into beating that dead horse again here...) And Bobek is lucky Michelle Kwan skated so well in 1994 or she would have been unlikely to have gone and medaled at the WC in 95. (For those not around then, Nicole didn't make it out of the qualifying round and Michelle got 8th place at her first worlds in 94, preserving 2 spots for the women. Bobek was 3rd the following year, Michelle 4th).

We have gained 3 spots, we have lost them, we'll gain them again. And I agree with those who say Rachel shouldn't have skated and should have informed USFS beforehand to allow Mirai to skate, but that doesn't justify some of the venom the poor girl is getting here. :(

Oldsk8ter
06-23-2011, 02:24 PM
We have gained 3 spots, we have lost them, we'll gain them again. And I agree with those who say Rachel shouldn't have skated and should have informed USFS beforehand to allow Mirai to skate, but that doesn't justify some of the venom the poor girl is getting here. :(
I could not agree with you more. Thanks for stating it so well.

kwanatic
06-23-2011, 02:39 PM
I guess people are really disappointed b/c this looked like the year we'd get those spots back for sure. I mean, Alissa had been skating really well and Rachael was (supposedly) a sure thing to carry her end. It's always someone who comes up a bit short.

In 2009 when they gave Alissa that US title (I still do not and will never believe that she earned that freaking title b/c she didn't) and put Rachael 2nd, Rachael performed very well (5th) and Alissa tanked (11th). Alissa got all of the blame that year not only because she fell to pieces, but b/c in terms of earning a trip to worlds...she didn't. Caroline Zhang should have been on the world team that year, not Alissa.

Last year, Mirai and Rachael went. Mirai looked as though she was medal (even gold medal) material after the SP only to lose her nerve and crumble in the LP. She finished 7th, ahead of Rachael who finished 9th, BUT b/c it was right there and she missed it, Mirai got most of the blame.

This year, Alissa held up her end and Rachael dropped the ball. The blame is allocated each year and she gets it this year. Alissa held up her end; Rachael didn't. And there's greater disappointment this year b/c everyone knows there's a good possibility Mirai could have stepped in and more than likely would have had a respectable enough skate to place 8th or higher. Thus, Rachael's getting more vitriol than usual b/c she somewhat pissed away a chance to finally secure that 3rd spot.

I really hope whoever they send next year will finally get those spots. With Soichi only a few years away, the Americans really need that extra spot to give more skaters the opportunity to get that world stage experience.

TheIronLady
06-23-2011, 02:46 PM
As are Kimmie, Bebe, and even Ashley (2008) and Nancy Kerrigan and Lisa Ervin and Tonia Kwiatkowski in 1993.

There was actually a lot of hating on Nancy, Lisa, and Tonia Kwiatkowski about 93 Worlds. So historically, Rachael is not alone.

VIETgrlTerifa
06-23-2011, 02:50 PM
I think a lot of the negative attitudes toward Rachael also stem from her winning 2010 Nationals over Mirai. We can argue all day about who the COP said was the winner of the title, but enough people felt that there was a robbery to create this perception of an anti-Rachael sentiment on FSU (that among other things). To me the biggest factor is that people seriously don't like her skating and that plays a large role. People are willing to forgive all sorts of personality defects as long as the skater can back it up with skating people enjoy and unfortunately, Rachael does not have a lot of people defending her skating. That is not to say she doesn't have any fans or that there aren't people who don't enjoy her skating, but I find that a lot of defensive arguments regarding Rachael aren't really centered around her skating but the fact that she's a National champion, or how losing three spots is beyond her and not solely her fault (true), or how she doesn't deserve the amount of venom she's getting due to this latest incident.

RD
06-23-2011, 02:58 PM
Even if she's not my fave, I'm getting a little uncomfortable w/ the hate that she is getting here. It's been going on for a while now. Why the frustration? Not getting 3 spots. Mirai and Alissa are just as guilty in years past [and they are my faves]

I recall Czisny getting dumped on when she tanked in 2009...I think it was just as nasty, perhaps even MORE so, than what Flatt is getting now. The one who I noticed got away with less flack and more forgiveness, for whatever reason, was Nagasu in 2010. I was even amazed that some people chose to point to Flatt's 9th as the reason we lost 3 spots that year, ignoring that if Nagasu hadn't fallen on the - 2A - she would have been THIRD!!! and 3+9=12, 12<13 does it not? :P

Basically, the same skater has not failed twice. In 2008 it was basically the whole team underperforming (especially Wagner though), in 2009 it was Czisny, in 2010 it was Nagasu and this time it was Flatt. One gets the feeling it was "just not meant to be" at this point. I do hope we get some fresh blood among the US's elite ladies. I admit to getting a bit bored with the current crop, although if Nagasu could pull herself together, she could be great I think.

RD
06-23-2011, 03:08 PM
To me the biggest factor is that people seriously don't like her skating and that plays a large role. People are willing to forgive all sorts of personality defects as long as the skater can back it up with skating people enjoy and unfortunately, Rachael does not have a lot of people defending her skating. That is not to say she doesn't have any fans or that there aren't people who don't enjoy her skating, but I find that a lot of defensive arguments regarding Rachael aren't really centered around her skating but the fact that she's a National champion, or how losing three spots is beyond her and not solely her fault (true), or how she doesn't deserve the amount of venom she's getting due to this latest incident.

I think you have a good point...however, Czisny has a lot of fans, people who enjoy her skating but that didn't stop her from being a lightning rod in 2009.

I agree with you about Flatt's fans bringing up her resume to defend her, though. I've been seeing a bit of that, lately.

leafygreens
06-23-2011, 03:09 PM
To me the biggest factor is that people seriously don't like her skating and that plays a large role. People are willing to forgive all sorts of personality defects as long as the skater can back it up with skating people enjoy and unfortunately, Rachael does not have a lot of people defending her skating.

BINGO. If RF were a more likeable skater, the fact that she bombed the whole season wouldn't be that big of a deal. But she is unlikeable because she has been undeservedly propped up at 2 or 3 nationals which is making peoples' blood boil. Alissa was propped up in 09, bombed, and didn't get another chance until 2011 when she actually deserved it. But Rachael kept getting chance after chance handed to her because she was "the USA's great new hope" for people looking for a new Kween. The same cycle happened to Kimmie in the previous quadrennial but people don't hate Kimmie because she got the message, went to school and unofficially retired. If you don't have the goods because of a growth spurt, it's time to pack it up and go home, because the glory days (RF's novice/junior years) are never coming back. For someone who is supposedly so "smart," this is puzzling.

RD
06-23-2011, 03:12 PM
BOOM!

Being "propped up" at Nats (or any competition) isn't really the skater's fault, though. I try to keep that in mind.

VIETgrlTerifa
06-23-2011, 03:23 PM
I think you have a good point...however, Czisny has a lot of fans, people who enjoy her skating but that didn't stop her from being a lightning rod in 2009.


That's because Alissa's skating had a reputation that season and prior of being a headcase, and multiple falls and clearly URed jumps do take away from the enjoyment of a skater. So when she bombed, not only did she become a lightning rod for failing to get 3 spots for the Olympics, but many felt it was a typical Czisny performance and remembered her jumping technique deficiencies that have plagued her career up to that point.

kwanatic
06-23-2011, 03:31 PM
ITA. A lot of it has to do with Rachael's lack of appeal with a large amount of skating fans. She has people who like her and enjoy her skating and that's fine. Personally, she's my bathroom/refrigerator break skater. She bores me. I think she really does try to be personable and exciting on the ice, but it just doesn't go past the boards. She can't electrify an audience like Mirai can or mesmerize them like Alissa can...she's not that interesting.

Add to that the constant mentioning of Stanford, AP classes and 4.0 GPA, and you've got a problem. It's not her fault; the commentators can't comment much on her skating so they default to praising her academics. It was the same way with Emily Hughes. They couldn't mention her name without name dropping Harvard five times...it didn't matter that she'd just butt-planted on the ice for the third time...she goes to HARVARD!! That kinda stuff gets very annoying very fast...

RD
06-23-2011, 03:36 PM
That's because Alissa's skating had a reputation that season and prior of being a headcase, and multiple falls and clearly URed jumps do take away from the enjoyment of a skater. So when she bombed, not only did she become a lightning rod for failing to get 3 spots for the Olympics, but many felt it was a typical Czisny performance and remembered her jumping technique deficiencies that have plagued her career up to that point.

true...but I remember her SP was a real disaster even by HER standards- 2 falls, including a 2A I believe. Her FS was ok, I think, but her mess of an SP truly ruined any chances of a top 8 finish. With the LA field, Flatt wasn't finishing any higher than 5th anyway.

ETA:


Add to that the constant mentioning of Stanford, AP classes and 4.0 GPA, and you've got a problem. It's not her fault; the commentators can't comment much on her skating so they default to praising her academics. It was the same way with Emily Hughes. They couldn't mention her name without name dropping Harvard five times...it didn't matter that she'd just butt-planted on the ice for the third time...she goes to HARVARD!! That kinda stuff gets very annoying very fast...

It does get old, I won't disagree there.

Sugar
06-23-2011, 05:27 PM
Flatt's fate: mistreated by many
http://www.csindy.com/colorado/flatts-fate-mistreated-by-many/Content?oid=2281108

judgejudy27
06-23-2011, 05:42 PM
As are Kimmie, Bebe, and even Ashley (2008) and Nancy Kerrigan and Lisa Ervin and Tonia Kwiatkowski in 1993. And that one really cost Nancy dearly, there have always been strong opinions that she "lost" the OGM to Oksana because of her poor performance in the freeskate at 93 worlds and Oksana winning that championship (but let's not go any further into beating that dead horse again here...) And Bobek is lucky Michelle Kwan skated so well in 1994 or she would have been unlikely to have gone and medaled at the WC in 95. (For those not around then, Nicole didn't make it out of the qualifying round and Michelle got 8th place at her first worlds in 94, preserving 2 spots for the women. Bobek was 3rd the following year, Michelle 4th).

We have gained 3 spots, we have lost them, we'll gain them again. And I agree with those who say Rachel shouldn't have skated and should have informed USFS beforehand to allow Mirai to skate, but that doesn't justify some of the venom the poor girl is getting here. :(

Bobek easily won Nationals in 1995 so I dont know why you think she wouldnt have gone to 95 Worlds if there was only one spot. If the USFSA favored Kwan heavily she would have gotten more than 1 1st place vote when she attempted and landed more triples than Bobek at those Nationals.

As for Flatt this latest incident pretty much confirms she is now dead to the USFSA. I doubt there will be any need to talk about her anymore in the coming season. She is done.