PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 [34] 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 02:06 PM
And your point is?

Mirai did not leave Rachel in the dust and forgotten at Nationals. Rachel earned a spot on the Wolrd team and Mirai did not.

Plus, Rachel is moving on to university/college. She has other things to do than skate after another figure skater. And if Mirai wants to compete with the big girls she has far more formidable opponents than Racher.

Your point is not clear either Japanfan.

Saying Rachael "earned" a spot is dubious. I wonder if she received the 6s she deserved at Nationals if Mirai might have gotten second.

Rachael at Skate America (near perfect skate)
Skating Skills 6.71
Transitions 6.39
Performance/Execution 6.96
Choreography 6.75
Interpretation 6.93


Rachael's Absurdly Inflated Marks at US Nats
Skating Skills 7.57
Transitions 7.36
Performance/Execution 7.82
Choreography 7.82
Interpretation 7.93


Rachael Scores at Worlds
Skating Skills 6.61
Transitions 6.32
Performance/Execution 6.46
Choreography 6.57
Interpretation 6.50

-----------------------------
Mirai's Scores at TEB (mixed performance)
Skating Skills 6.93
Transitions 6.61
Performance/Execution 6.96
Choreography 6.96
Interpretation 6.96

------------------------------

Head to Head at 4CC

Mirai
Skating Skills 7.68
Transitions 7.36
Performance/Execution 7.57
Choreography 7.50
Interpretation 7.43

Rachael
Skating Skills 7.07
Transitions 6.86
Performance/Execution 7.25
Choreography 7.21
Interpretation 7.32

---------------------------
Head to Head at Nats

Mirai
Skating Skills 7.71
Transitions 7.21
Performance/Execution 7.61
Choreography 7.54
Interpretation 7.71


Rachael
Skating Skills 7.57
Transitions 7.36
Performance/Execution 7.82
Choreography 7.82
Interpretation 7.93

Coco
06-22-2011, 02:31 PM
The transitions mark makes me go HUH?

RFOS
06-22-2011, 02:52 PM
Mirai's actual transitions score was 7.21, not 6.21, in the free skate at U.S. Nationals.

Now bring on the criticism that judges aren't spreading their marks around enough. ;) Judges can't win either way sometimes it seems. :P

While Rachael's overall total component scores were marginally higher than Mirai's in the free skate (skating skills were lower, which I definitely agree with), when people talk about Rachael's inflated scores at Nationals they usually conveniently omit that it was on the technical mark where Rachael beat Mirai by 6 points. And Mirai got better GOEs for her best elements (layback and combination spin) than Rachael did for any elements, and I don't really see any evidence that the judges were "trying" to hold up Rachael on the GOEs.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2011/68096/SEGM002.html

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 02:56 PM
While Mirai probably gave away her place on the team with her flying sit spin (who messes up a spin that much besides, well, Johnny Weir), Rachael did not earn hers. The judges helped her. When comparing her against the best in the world, the judges were going to take one look at Rachael and give her 6.50s.

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 02:57 PM
Mirai's actual transitions score was 7.21, not 6.21, in the free skate at U.S. Nationals.

Now bring on the criticism that judges aren't spreading their marks around enough. ;) Judges can't win either way sometimes it seems. :P

Thanks. Corrected.

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 03:10 PM
... when people talk about Rachael's inflated scores at Nationals they usually conveniently omit that it was on the technical mark where Rachael beat Mirai by 6 points. And Mirai got better GOEs for her best elements (layback and combination spin) than Rachael did for any elements, and I don't really see any evidence that the judges were "trying" to hold up Rachael on the GOEs.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2011/68096/SEGM002.html

Those 6 points advantage in TES might have been mitigated by awarding Rachael the scores she deserved for components. Mirai had a one point lead from the short. Was it mathemetically possible for Mirai to beat Rachael if they scored her closer to what she got at Worlds?

kwanatic
06-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Rachael often got the nod b/c of her consistency. Mirai is obviously the better all around skater, but Rachael had the consistency factor going for her. Her appeal is waaaay less than Mirai, but jumps count and with Mirai sometimes being a wildcard, I understand why the US judges and the federation would pick Rachael. Rachael was the sure thing: you knew she'd go out there and nail her jumps. Mirai was a bit of a gamble; she's capable of hitting really big but then she's also capable of kinda crapping out.

I'm hopeful for Mirai. We still haven't seen her at her full potential, though we got a glimpse of it at 4CC. This season has been an uphill battle for her. She had the stress fracture over the summer, lost a lot of training time, and was basically playing catch-up for the rest of the season. I hope she stays healthy this summer. I really hope she's getting that 3lz-3t back and that she's working on her mental toughness as well. She's such a talented and gifted skater and she is the only US lady capable of challenging the top skaters in the field right now...

Rachael OTOH is a talented skater, but she'll never have the appeal Mirai has b/c she's a bit plain, as is her skating. She's not really electrifying or exciting when she skates...she's dull. I've tried to get into her skating, but she bores the crap out of me. Rachael reminds me a lot of Angela Nikodinov...pre-2001. Angela was a rather "blah" and boring skater up until that point. She had talent but her packaging was bad: music and choreography, all the way to dress and hair...everything was plain and thus, people often forgot about her the instant she left the ice. BUT, she transformed herself in 2001. She got music and choreography that complimented her style, she changed up the style of her outfits and her hair...suddenly people began taking notice of her and could see how lovely her skating was.

I honestly thought that's what we'd see with Rachael last year, but we got more of the same flirty Betty Boop-esque choreography and music. Sorry, but Rachael + flirty & sexy = uncomfortable / shudder with a remainder of ewww...not a good look. She needs a style overhaul, and that applies to everything. Rachael needs to change it up: different hair color (she's so pale and the blonde hair washes her out), different dresses (get away from the retina searing yellow and reds; go dark like this one (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/xGzaIHnJRIr/Figure+Skating+Championships/LOLBF0dKxl8/Rachael+Flatt). She's not very long which sometimes makes her look heavy, which she's not. Dark colors are slimming...), work on her posture and extension, and find some music that compliments her style.

Rachael can reinvent her skating and she needs to...she'll never get the respect she deserves if she doesn't force people to take notice of her and the talent she has...

olifaunt
06-22-2011, 03:53 PM
It is amazing how much better Rachael looks in dark colors. She's a beautiful girl.

I'm hopeful for her packaging this year because she'll have a new coach, though I have no idea who that coach might be. She'll also be out on her own, away from her parents, with maybe more freedom to choose her own music, which is probably a good thing: her exhibition program this season was lovely and suited her very well.

RFOS
06-22-2011, 04:09 PM
Those 6 points advantage in TES might have been mitigated by awarding Rachael the scores she deserved for components. Mirai had a one point lead from the short. Was it mathemetically possible for Mirai to beat Rachael if they scored her closer to what she got at Worlds?

If Rachael had scored for components at Nationals what she scored at Worlds and everything else was the same then yes, Mirai would've been 2nd, (Rachael was almost 10 points higher for PCS at Nationals vs. Worlds) but that wouldn't have made much sense, because Rachael performed much worse at Worlds. Mirai performed comparably at TEB and Nationals (badly messing up a spin at both ;) and getting nearly equal TES scores) and scored 5.5 points higher for PCS at Nationals, so Rachael's not the only one being scored more generously at Nationals. It tends to happen.

At 4CC Mirai scored 3 points higher for PCS than Rachael in the FS (vs. Rachael being about 1 point higher in the FS at Nationals), so maybe accounting for a difference in panel something a shift in points of about that magnitude (4 points in favor of Mirai) could have occurred, and even if you throw in a possible 1 point shift in favor of Mirai in the SP, it still wouldn't have been quite enough to make up the 6 point difference.

All of this is hypothetical and trying to be as favorable to Mirai relative to Rachael just for argument's sake (I don't necessarily agree with those assumptions). With Mirai's completely missed spin, it's a bit of a stretch for Mirai to beat Rachael.

victoriaheidi
06-22-2011, 04:09 PM
It is amazing how much better Rachael looks in dark colors. She's a beautiful girl.

I'm hopeful for her packaging this year because she'll have a new coach, though I have no idea who that coach might be. She'll also be out on her own, away from her parents, with maybe more freedom to choose her own music, which is probably a good thing: her exhibition program this season was lovely and suited her very well.

Her exhibitions are beautiful (maybe because no one asks for feedback?). Her programs just stink. Except EoE and (imo, though I know it wasn't popular around here) Sing, Sing, Sing.

If I were choreographing for Rachael, I'd use her exhibitions as a starting point. My all-time favorite of hers is "One Day I'll Fly Away," so I'd probably encourage her to do a Moulin Rouge LP (because it's her favorite movie and I think she'd bring a lot to it, just based on the other program). I also think, given how great she was when she had a little bit of freedom "choreographing" the "Your Song" program, that I'd encourage her to actively participate in the choreography process by making suggestions, bringing in her own ideas and making the program uniquely hers (plus, she loves math, and I'm sure she'd have no issue determining likely TES based on a program). I mean, on some level, choreography is about making the program unique and Rachael-specific, but I rarely feel that way with Lori Nichol.

Also, if I were Rachael and in this kind of time crunch, I'd keep EoE for another season.

olifaunt
06-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Also, if I were Rachael and in this kind of time crunch, I'd keep EoE for another season.

I would too. IMO the only things that program need are a better costume and a little tweaking in the footwork section.

RD
06-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Looks like Flatt's scores at 4CCs are what should be used as comparison, rather than her SA score. After all, it appears the scores are higher at championship events as opposed to GP events anyway.

Flatt's score (as posted) At 4CC:

Skating Skills 7.07
Transitions 6.86
Performance/Execution 7.25
Choreography 7.21
Interpretation 7.32

Flatt's scores (as posted) at Nationals:

Skating Skills 7.57
Transitions 7.36
Performance/Execution 7.82
Choreography 7.82
Interpretation 7.93

score difference:

Skating Skills +0.40
Transitions +0.50
Performance/Execution +0.57
Choreography +0.61
Interpretation +0.61

Total scoring difference: +2.69

Score differential between Flatt and Nagasu at Nationals: 6.12

Score differential between RF and MN IF Flatt given 4CC scores: 3.43

So, if they marked these scores EXACTLY like they did at 4CCs, Flatt would STILL come out on top, although it would have been quite a bit closer (like it should have been). And, of course, this is ASSUMING that Nagasu's scoring was unchanged.

Bottom line is, Nagasu basically mailed it in that night. I think the results were right, although the score differential should definitely have been smaller.

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 05:25 PM
If Rachael had scored for components at Nationals what she scored at Worlds and everything else was the same then yes, Mirai would've been 2nd, (Rachael was almost 10 points higher for PCS at Nationals vs. Worlds) but that wouldn't have made much sense, because Rachael performed much worse at Worlds. Mirai performed comparably at TEB and Nationals (badly messing up a spin at both ;) and getting nearly equal TES scores) and scored 5.5 points higher for PCS at Nationals, so Rachael's not the only one being scored more generously at Nationals. It tends to happen.

At 4CC Mirai scored 3 points higher for PCS than Rachael in the FS (vs. Rachael being about 1 point higher in the FS at Nationals), so maybe accounting for a difference in panel something a shift in points of about that magnitude (4 points in favor of Mirai) could have occurred, and even if you throw in a possible 1 point shift in favor of Mirai in the SP, it still wouldn't have been quite enough to make up the 6 point difference.

All of this is hypothetical and trying to be as favorable to Mirai relative to Rachael just for argument's sake (I don't necessarily agree with those assumptions). With Mirai's completely missed spin, it's a bit of a stretch for Mirai to beat Rachael.

Thanks for this good analysis. I think your conclusion is pretty solid.

I would suggest you factor in how Mirai had improved her familiarity with her choreography by Nationals. The screw up on the spin was bad, but Rachael had omissions that interrupted her FS flow and composition.

TheIronLady
06-22-2011, 05:32 PM
Some of this shows the futulity of absolute (as opposed to relative) scoring of interpretation, choreography, and performance.

Rex
06-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Thanks for this good analysis. I think your conclusion is pretty solid.

I would suggest you factor in how Mirai had improved her familiarity with her choreography by Nationals. The screw up on the spin was bad, but Rachael had omissions that interrupted her FS flow and composition. I did not see improvement in the Betty Boop number over Skate America, whereas Mirai was less rushed and sloppy than she was at the GPs.

But what did they give Mirai's jumps? Did she receive credit for full rotations?