PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 [22] 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52

agalisgv
06-18-2011, 01:43 AM
That is what I was thinking or maybe they don't bother to ramp it up until they actually get the destination and then hit it really hard, maybe it is really different for alternates and it's not that bad on the body because it happens so rarely. I don't think Sylvia is saying Mirai and Frank were just taking it easy in the lead-up to Wotlds which is what you seem to be suggesting. Rather, Mirai may have taken a week off after 4C, then gone back to training rigorously for Worlds. So in that case, there would be no "dispute" of things between Frank and Mirai.

AxelAnnie
06-18-2011, 01:57 AM
Team Agreement but yes, that's exactly the point.

Hopefully it will serve as a warning to other coaches, thinking about putting their skaters at risk for personal gain.

I really really hope that Zakrajsek ends up in trouble too, before he lets another seriously injured skater compete. What a complete tool. :mad:



Is it possible to study at Stanford full-time and be a competitive skater?

Nope. Unless you don't need to practice. Even Michell could not manage school and keep her competitive edge. Stanford, by the way is more difficult to GET into.than it is to stay in. But if you were going to go to one of the best universities in the nation, why would you not want to take full advantage if it?

olifaunt
06-18-2011, 02:08 AM
Nope. Unless you don't need to practice. Even Michell could not manage school and keep her competitive edge. Stanford, by the way is more difficult to GET into.than it is to stay in. But if you were going to go to one of the best universities in the nation, why would you not want to take full advantage if it?

Alissa Czisny graduated summa cum laude from Bowling Green in, I believe, four years (might have been five). She won a national title and several GP medals during that time, and the rink she skated at was two hours away from her school. Different schools, different programs, might not be comparable, but it's definitely possible to go to school full-time *and* achieve some degree of skating success. :)

Sylvia
06-18-2011, 02:10 AM
Derrick Delmore was able to double major in psychology and communications at Stanford and continue competing at Nationals and internationals. He graduated in 2000 and won his Junior World title while he was in college.

VIETgrlTerifa
06-18-2011, 02:27 AM
However, if Rachael wants to continue her pursuits in chemical engineering (which is what she is majoring in if I remember correctly) then it might be a lot more difficult for her to continue skating at the elite level and do the course load at Stanford. I don't mean to downgrade the other skaters' accomplishments (and I know Debi Thomas was a Pre-med student at Stanford) because going to school full-time and maintaining a high-level skating career is a hugely difficult task, but Rachael's field-of-study may have different requirements than the other skaters. However, maybe she can handle it and if so, then that is highly impressive.

Coco
06-18-2011, 03:33 AM
I have also wondered how she could be training in Colorado Springs, injured to some degree the week before leaving, without this gossip making it's way back to USFS.

Maybe it did make it's way back to USFS, they asked Team Flatt point blank about the injury rumors and were told that she was fine. Maybe that's why they are coming down harshly on her.

The way it's being handled, disclosures to the press and no punishment of her coach, leave me feeling, well, flat. I'd rather see some kind of monitoring put in place, ESPECIALLY when the major championships has been postponed for chrissakes, then this public reprimand for - let's face it - skating poorly. And while she is an adult, it's just barely, and elite teenage athletes can be extremely dependant on their authority figures.

I think Flatt spoke so openly about it because she trusts the people around her to not lead her in the wrong direction. They knew she had a stress fracture when she got on the plane, so it must be ok. Either that or she thought that USFSA knew about it because she and Tom Z. had discussed it with them.

I hope USFSA can find a balance that allows athletes to be open enough about injuries so that they get the treatment they need while protecting the interests of the national team by sending the strongest delegation. I don't see how this can be achieved w/o monitoring. Elite athletes and their coachs have to be absurdly optimistic to be in this line of 'work' to begin with. Relying on them to be pragmatic and remotely accurate about how injuries will affect their performance is flawed. They should bring back monitoring even if it's via Skype. I mean, either the rule Rachael broke is broken all the time or it the injury has to be really serious to get someone removed from the team. I'm sure all these kids are competing injured to some degree :(

RD
06-18-2011, 03:58 AM
ITA about monitoring.

But maybe they are in the middle of building a strong case against Tom Z, and we'll hear of that action, which I wouldn't be shocked if it included a suspension.

olifaunt
06-18-2011, 04:11 AM
ITA about monitoring.

But maybe they are in the middle of building a strong case against Tom Z, and we'll hear of that action, which I wouldn't be shocked if it included a suspension.

I hope. However:

The world at large found out about Rachael's stress fracture April 30.

PSA nominees for coach of the year were announced May 10.

I have zero inkling about the selection process for coach of the year nominees - maybe it had been decided much earlier in the year - and I know that PSA and USFSA are not exactly the same entity, and maybe USFSA hadn't even been able to contact Rachael's team by then; even considering all that, Tom Z keeping his nomination seems a little off, and makes me a little pessimistic about what action will be taken against him.

victoriaheidi
06-18-2011, 05:07 AM
I have zero inkling about the selection process for coach of the year nominees - maybe it had been decided much earlier in the year - and I know that PSA and USFSA are not exactly the same entity, and maybe USFSA hadn't even been able to contact Rachael's team by then; even considering all that, Tom Z keeping his nomination seems a little off, and makes me a little pessimistic about what action will be taken against him.

After reading through the nominees, it basically just looks like the coaches of nat'l champs. Is there a list of criteria considered and, if so, does it basically just say "coaches of nat'l champs and Oly/World medalists"?

Sylvia
06-18-2011, 05:18 AM
Is there a list of criteria considered and, if so, does it basically just say "coaches of nat'l champs and Oly/World medalists"?
I posted this link earlier in the thread: http://www.usfsa.org/content/Award%20Criteria.pdf (document is dated October 23, 2009)

victoriaheidi
06-18-2011, 05:41 AM
I posted this link earlier in the thread: http://www.usfsa.org/content/Award%20Criteria.pdf (document is dated October 23, 2009)

Ok, well, he meets two of the three. I have to say, though, that the third is a very subjective item, so he may have gotten it based on friends' nominations and not lost the nomination because nothing was proven by the time the award was given out?

I don't know, I think Tom's nomination was given to him because his skaters did have some pretty great success this year and nothing was proven against him by that time. So I'm counting the nomination as a mistake and a minor transgression.

Triple Butz
06-18-2011, 06:11 AM
For all of you who are wondering why she spoke so openly about the injury, I think it's pretty obvious...She skated like $h!t and she needed an explanation. You don't TOTALLY change your jump layout and leave out two triple lutzes without justification. Can you imagine if she had just said, "I didn't feel like doing triple flips or lutzes today, that's all." Imagine the heat she would have gotten for that. She spoke about her injury because she needed to.

Vagabond
06-18-2011, 06:50 AM
Nope. Unless you don't need to practice.

Not true.

Books Or Blades, There's No Doubting Thomas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1064528/2/index.htm)


Three days before arriving at the nationals, Thomas, who lives in a student dorm, stayed up all night studying for a midterm. "Why should I worry about sleep?" she says with a laugh. "I never got any in high school, either." Thomas, who has been taking skating lessons since she was nine, grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood in San Jose and attended high school in San Mateo. Her parents, who are divorced, both work in the computer industry. "A typical day?" she says. "At 8 a.m. I have calculus; 9 a.m., chemistry; 11 a.m., Western culture. Lunch. Drive 15 minutes to the rink to train from 1:15 to 7:45. Home by 8:30. Study till 3 a.m. Sometimes, anyway. I'm, like, the all-nighter queen."

Practice pays off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiXFqqUFeH8)

:respec:

kwanfan1818
06-18-2011, 08:11 AM
I so agree with this...the coach is the spokesperson at this level.
But the coach is saying she was in fine shape before Worlds. She is the one who said that a week before they left for Russia that her training was not going well, and she was in pain.

FigureSpins
06-18-2011, 10:26 AM
I have zero inkling about the selection process for coach of the year nominees - maybe it had been decided much earlier in the year - and I know that PSA and USFSA are not exactly the same entity, and maybe USFSA hadn't even been able to contact Rachael's team by then; even considering all that, Tom Z keeping his nomination seems a little off, and makes me a little pessimistic about what action will be taken against him.

Ok, well, he meets two of the three. I have to say, though, that the third is a very subjective item, so he may have gotten it based on friends' nominations and not lost the nomination because nothing was proven by the time the award was given out?

I don't know, I think Tom's nomination was given to him because his skaters did have some pretty great success this year and nothing was proven against him by that time. So I'm counting the nomination as a mistake and a minor transgression.

The PSA accepts nominations from its members for the awards, then holds a popular vote to determine the winners. I would expect that some of the nominations are standard -- Coach of the Year award nominees are coaches who've had success at elite levels during the season. The nominations require a name and description of why the person should receive a particular award based on the criteria Sylvia linked. That justification is presented along with the slate of candidates for voting. I will say that each brief justification did seem to have been written by different people.

The nomination deadline was February 28, 2011.
The slate of nominees opened for voting in early March and concluded at the beginning of April. (Per my email from the PSA)

Worlds was originally scheduled for late March in Japan (during the voting period), but instead took place in Russia in late April, after the polls closed.

The press release on May 10th was a formality since voting had already concluded.
I don't think the winners are announced in advance, although I'm sure they're notified so that they can make travel arrangements.
The Conference and Awards ceremony takes place in late May.


As for the relationship between the USFSA and PSA, it's definitely closely tied, but independent. Their sanctions and suspensions are also independent of each other. Each organization accepts and rules on grievances filed against its members. There was a loophole where, if a grievance was filed and upheld by the PSA, the USFSA couldn't take action unless they had also received a grievance. Disciplinary action only took place within that organization.

The loophole was closing anyway because the USFSA now requires all coaches at qualifying competitions to be PSA members, but this action was taken at the 2011 Governing Council meeting:


404. Grievance Committee
Add new rule GCR 10.00 [suggested number] (page 62, Rulebook) as follows:

GCR 10.00 Reciprocity with the Professional Skater’s Association
GCR 10.01 When current [coaching] members of U.S. Figure Skating are disciplined, suspended or expelled by the Professional Skaters Association (PSA) and the PSA requests that U.S. Figure Skating also take disciplinary action, such request will be considered as the grievance filing. Once such filing is recognized by the Grievance Committee chair, U.S. Figure Skating may recognize the PSA discipline against said member and may impose a concurrent U.S. Figure Skating discipline.

Committee vote: 22 yes, 4 no, 0 abstain

Rationale: Currently the PSA gives full reciprocity to any discipline imposed by U.S. Figure Skating on its members who are also members of the PSA. In the past, U.S. Figure Skating has not given reciprocity to discipline imposed by the PSA on its members who were also members of U. S. Figure Skating because of a procedural fair process issue regarding disclosure of the hearing panel members that the PSA has now changed. It is the belief of the Grievance Committee that figure skating would benefit from this amendment since there have been occasions where grievances have been filed with the PSA, and the PSA has disciplined the member (who is a member of both organizations), but the discipline had little to no effect on the member’s activities because no grievance was fi led with U.S. Figure Skating, so U.S. Figure Skating could impose no discipline. This modification to our rules will correct this type of situation.

Financial impact: None

Implementation date: September 1, 2011


It's a moot point: Tom Z has NOT been suspended or banned to date, so he would still be eligible for the awards, if someone chose to nominate him. At this point, perhaps the nominator(s) would have been swayed by recent history. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.