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View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



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Cheylana
06-16-2011, 11:59 PM
A single skater can earn 3 spots at Worlds by finishing either first or second. But I'm not sure whether they count Alissa as a single skater if Rachael withdraws after the SP (as opposed to withdrawing before the SP).

kittyjake5
06-17-2011, 12:01 AM
Venom? Let's hope not. The fine and reprimand are not because Rachael skated poorly or skated while injured, or because 3 spots were not gained for the ladies. As others have pointed out multiple times, the issue is about Rachael (and her coach) not fully informing USFS regarding her injury as soon as it was diagnosed, no matter if it was a week before she left for Worlds. Clearly the USFS should have been informed, and the alternate's coach given a heads-up. That doesn't mean that Rachael would not still have skated. It means that by fully informing everyone, and giving every opportunity for the alternate to be there as a back-up, Rachael would have had the opportunity to skate if she could, but also to know that she didn't have to or need to gut it out when clearly she was experiencing pain from a significant injury. By not fully informing USFS, it simply looks careless and selfish on the part of the coach and the skater. USFS definitely is not without blame either, but perhaps this situation will help clarify for everyone the dangers, culpabilities and responsibilities associated with injuries and readiness to compete. Rachael should use this as a learning experience, and not allow it to deter her from continuing to compete, if she wishes. She should continue to hold her head high and gain strength from this difficult experience (instead of downplaying it or ignoring the implications), and perhaps choose a new coach more wisely.

This has nothing to do with the men not retaining 3 spots. Each of the men performed well, and were not suffering from significant injury that they failed to report. The men did not fare well in the skate order or the judging marks and reputation factor -- all things out of their control.

This.

pinky166
06-17-2011, 12:03 AM
A single skater can earn 3 spots at Worlds by finishing either first or second. But I'm not sure whether they count Alissa as a single skater if Rachael withdraws after the SP (as opposed to withdrawing before the SP).

Oh ok. Still though, I don't think the judges were going to let Alissa come in 2nd no matter how well she skated, so it's a moot point. 3rd was the highest she realistically had a chance at. After 4CC it became really clear that either Miki or Yuna was going to win Worlds, and whichever one didn't would come in 2nd.

jlai
06-17-2011, 12:24 AM
Wow, the way some people are reacting, you'd think she was the second coming of Tonya Harding!

This is off-season, and fans like us jump on any news to discuss. Had Wagner's move been the top news this off-season it would have received the same treatment. :)

RD
06-17-2011, 12:43 AM
Okay, for starters, Mirai can’t be called unreliable.

I dunno...Nagasu is not a rock, either.

The same skater who came out busting at 2008 Nationals but faltered in 2009 when faced with the pressure of defending champ...

The same skater who rocked the building in Spokane, then again in Vancouver, only to fall flat in Torino. (Many argue that she single-handedly lost 3 spots since she otherwise would have medaled.)

The same skater who wilted under pressure at 2011 Nationals, but was able to deliver a near-SOHL at 4CCs 2 weeks later without any real pressure.

She may not be a Kostner, but she is also far from a steady hand.

figurefan
06-17-2011, 01:31 AM
Mirai is not unreliable
...

:huh: We are talking about a skater who was in first place at 2010 worlds and ended up finishing 7th after an 11th place finish in the free. Her long program performance at Nationals this year was not a skate from someone I would rely on. Don't get me wrong...I love Mirai but like Sasha Cohen, she is beautiful but also very inconsistent.

michiruwater
06-17-2011, 01:39 AM
Sasha Cohen was on the podium in every competition after the 2003 WCs until her de facto retirement (including her Pewter medal at the 2010 Nats). She was top 5 in every single competition of her senior career. It's not comparable.

RD
06-17-2011, 01:48 AM
I love Mirai but like Sasha Cohen, she is beautiful but also very inconsistent.

A MAJOR difference between the two skaters, though- Nagasu has shown multiple times that she CAN deliver a solid freeskate. Cohen didn't do that even once. (Side: I think Nagasu also has more fire and spunk than Cohen ever had, at least on a good Nagasu day.)

Some may also point to Cohen's medal haul as another difference, but as Nagasu is still at the height of her career, it is not yet a fair comparison IMHO.

Where they're similar, most likely, is where their heads are at when they're faced with pressure, usually being the leader after the short. Both seem to psych themselves out and therefore they're doomed.

AliasJohnDoe
06-17-2011, 01:52 AM
BTW, it's worth noting that the Flatt thread is sucking the air out of the Wagner thread. :shuffle:

Maybe Ashley should kick a puppy, or steal a Pairs partner. :P

AndyWarhol
06-17-2011, 04:21 AM
A MAJOR difference between the two skaters, though- Nagasu has shown multiple times that she CAN deliver a solid freeskate. Cohen didn't do that even once. (Side: I think Nagasu also has more fire and spunk than Cohen ever had, at least on a good Nagasu day.)

Some may also point to Cohen's medal haul as another difference, but as Nagasu is still at the height of her career, it is not yet a fair comparison IMHO.

Where they're similar, most likely, is where their heads are at when they're faced with pressure, usually being the leader after the short. Both seem to psych themselves out and therefore they're doomed.

She did at that Marshalls (?) in 2004. Although, it was a cheesefest, and not a WC or something important.

I think it is unfair for Rachel to be fined. If the rules are that you have to disclose your injury, then yes, she should have been reprimanded. But not a fine. I think USFSA are in part to blame for this. If Rachel thought that she was above the rules, its is most likely to her being trumped up with less than stellar performances the past year(s).

Anita18
06-17-2011, 04:42 AM
Skaters focus on their skating, not on what their legal obligations are.
It's not just a "legal obligation." If you take money from someone, you should let them know if there's a chance you'll let them down. It's just the right thing to do.


Wrong. I loved Flatt's 2nd SP this year, for example, and praised it to the hilt in the US Natls forum. It's not the skating - it's the Poor Judgment!

I have since removed my quote due to bullying and censorship. Expected from an USFS- and SOI-sponsored and policed forum.
You'd be surprised how many extremely smart people have supremely poor judgment. My sister went to Stanford and ran regularly even though it was hurting her knees and ankles - she was taking glucosamine and aspirin every day and she was only 20. I finally talked her into spending some money to buy good running shoes and what do you know, the pain went away. :P When you have someone who's used to working as hard as Rachael and my sister do, they often believe they'll "get over it" if they just plow full-steam ahead.

Frankly I don't care what Mirai could or couldn't have done. Rachael had an obligation to notify USFSA of her injury because she was taking their money.

Oh, and I hope Tom Z gets more punishment than Rachael did. With his current track record for pushing injured skaters, he disgusts me.

kwanfan1818
06-17-2011, 05:09 AM
A single skater can earn 3 spots at Worlds by finishing either first or second. But I'm not sure whether they count Alissa as a single skater if Rachael withdraws after the SP (as opposed to withdrawing before the SP).
Czisny wouldn't have been treated as the only US entry had Flatt withdrawn after the SP. Once Flatt started the competition, she would receive points based on how far she had gotten (18 for not making the FS, 16 for making the FS).

I'm not sure what the start point is: when practices begin, at the draw, once the quali round begins (even if she didn't skate it), once the SP begins, because she's a direct entry, or some other milestone. Whatever it is, that's when Flatt would be considered part of the US team.

Russia had a similar situation two years ago when Borodulin broke a skate blade and couldn't continue.

taf2002
06-17-2011, 05:21 AM
Oh ok. Still though, I don't think the judges were going to let Alissa come in 2nd no matter how well she skated, so it's a moot point. 3rd was the highest she realistically had a chance at. After 4CC it became really clear that either Miki or Yuna was going to win Worlds, and whichever one didn't would come in 2nd.

Hmmm. International judges "let" her win the GPF. I really don't think the majority of the judges sit up nights to scheme how they can screw Alissa. On the contrary, they seem to love her & they reward her when the jumps are there.

Sasha'sSpins
06-17-2011, 06:42 AM
They should have gone after Tom Z, too.

I hope they do-ESPECIALLY Tom Z.

I was totally blown away when I read about this on another site. Best news I've heard all month after spending far too much time on court message boards due to the Casey Anthony trial.

I didn't think the US Figure Skating had it in them as Rachael always seemed a favorite of theirs (to me anyway). Totally correct decision imo.

Rachael is an adult, she knew the rules going in and chose not to reveal her injury until it was too late for the first alternate Mirai, or one of the other alternates to take her place in stead. I think Rachael knows the writing is on the wall if she competes at Nationals. We'll see how it goes next year.

They'd better fine Tom Z too. He is knew the extent of to how this injury was affecting Rachael in practices, and he's just as responsible for the result.

All that being said, I hope this motivates Mirai to work hard :kickass: at Nationals, and really earn her spot back on that world team where she belongs.

Sugar
06-17-2011, 06:55 AM
Knocked Flatt for skating through pain
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jun/16/knocked-flatt-skating-through-pain/
“For U.S. Figure Skating to do that to a former national champion, that’s just a total smack in the face,” Baldwin said. “Our federation just sent a message: If you’re injured, don’t tell anybody. Keep your mouth shut. Where Rachael made a mistake was talking about it in a press conference.

“But she’s young. She’ll learn.”