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View Full Version : U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt



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Rex
06-16-2011, 04:57 PM
:) I guess it just seems like yeeeeeaaarrrsss to me because I'd like to see them regain -- and keep -- 3 spots!

I would say that at least 5 of the last 6 years they had only 2 spots -- my point being that many World teams both with and without Rachael have fallen short of earning 3 spots. Why so much blame is falling on her is astonishing to me.
Ok. I get it.
But someone needs to tell Frank Carroll that Mirai middle name is not Reliable...

RD
06-16-2011, 05:13 PM
...my point being that many World teams both with and without Rachael have fallen short of earning 3 spots. Why so much blame is falling on her is astonishing to me.

Umm...the ONLY team that Rachel wasn't on that lost 3 spots was 2008...and she wasn't on that team only because she was too young to go. But in 2009, 2010, 2011...all those teams failed to get back the 3rd spot and guess what...Flatt was on all 3 teams!

pinky166
06-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Umm...the ONLY team that Rachel wasn't on that lost 3 spots was 2008...and she wasn't on that team only because she was too young to go. But in 2009, 2010, 2011...all those teams failed to get back the 3rd spot and guess what...Flatt was on all 3 teams!

But in 2009 you can't blame her as the cause for not getting 3 spots, she came in 5th and skated really well. 2010, 2011, yes she was the lower placing team member and made big mistakes and can be blamed for not getting back 3 spots.

viennese
06-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Extraordinary.

Athletes are accustomed to competing while in pain. But serious injuries should keep them out of competition - not just because it'll hurt a "team effort," but because they can wreck their bodies, going all out at major competitions while hurt.

It's plain irresponsible for coaches not to communicate the seriousness of an athlete's injury.

FrouFrou
06-16-2011, 05:46 PM
Umm...the ONLY team that Rachel wasn't on that lost 3 spots was 2008...and she wasn't on that team only because she was too young to go. But in 2009, 2010, 2011...all those teams failed to get back the 3rd spot and guess what...Flatt was on all 3 teams!

Yes, but that can also be a testament to the current level of U.S. ladies figure skating. Alissa was on two of those rosters, and Mirai on one. Rachael earned her way for every one of those world championships.

Mirai may have helped secure the third spot had she competed at worlds this time around, but that's still only a hypothetical. Frank can insist to all ends that Mirai would have gotten the job done, but he also has to own up that she blew it at nationals.

RD
06-16-2011, 05:49 PM
But in 2009 you can't blame her as the cause for not getting 3 spots, she came in 5th and skated really well. 2010, 2011, yes she was the lower placing team member and made big mistakes and can be blamed for not getting back 3 spots.

My intent behind making that point was not to blame Flatt for the loss of the 3rd spot- that's a different topic altogether. Someone said above that "many World teams both with and without Rachael have fallen short of earning 3 spots", and I'm saying that in this recent streak, there has only been one team without her that failed to keep 3 spots (2008 team of Meissner, Liang, Wagner). I said that out of the 4 teams now that have lost 3 spots/failed to get 3 spots, Flatt has been on 3 of them (and they happen to be consecutive teams). All I am doing here is stating facts.

TheIronLady
06-16-2011, 05:53 PM
Ok. I get it.
But someone needs to tell Frank Carroll that Mirai middle name is not Reliable...

Mirai is not unreliable
...

RD
06-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Yes, but that can also be a testament to the current level of U.S. ladies figure skating. Alissa was on two of those rosters, and Mirai on one. Rachael earned her way for every one of those world championships.

Again, I'm not blaming anyone here in particular. But I agree, since Kwan/Cohen left in 2006, no one has stepped up to the plate. No World/Oly medals since 2006. Every time there seems to be an opening, one of our team members has had a meltdown. And it's been someone different every time.



Mirai may have helped secure the third spot had she competed at worlds this time around, but that's still only a hypothetical. Frank can insist to all ends that Mirai would have gotten the job done, but he also has to own up that she blew it at nationals.

This is really only a woulda-coulda-shoulda at this point.

Rex
06-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Mirai is not unreliable
...

Mirai is the Fiat of ladies skaters....

TheIronLady
06-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Frank can insist to all ends that Mirai would have gotten the job done, but he also has to own up that she blew it at nationals.

I am curious, did Rachael get the job done at nationals? Would her performance vs Mirai's have scored better at Worlds?

mikemba
06-16-2011, 06:04 PM
Umm...the ONLY team that Rachel wasn't on that lost 3 spots was 2008...and she wasn't on that team only because she was too young to go. But in 2009, 2010, 2011...all those teams failed to get back the 3rd spot and guess what...Flatt was on all 3 teams!

Didn't the 2007 team also fail to get 3 spots for the next year?

Anyway, I'll re-word the point I was trying to make. Some US ladies other than Rachael were on teams that failed to get 3 spots: Mirai and Alissa for sure (and Kimmie maybe? Emily maybe?Ashley? Bebe?). So my point is that Rachael is being villainized as though she single-handedly failed to get 3 spots when there were other skaters on those teams as well.

Incidentally the US men failed to get 3 spots for next year despite the fact that they had three men available to earn those spots. I don't see 1/10th of the venom going to them that is going to Rachael. (Actually I don't think anyone should get venom).

RD
06-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Didn't the 2007 team also fail to get 3 spots for the next year?

Meissner's 4th and Hughes' 9th was JUST enough to eek out 3 spots for 2008. It was the 2008 team that lost the 3rd spot for 2009, and we have yet to get it back.


Anyway, I'll re-word the point I was trying to make. Some US ladies other than Rachael were on teams that failed to get 3 spots: Mirai and Alissa for sure (and Kimmie maybe? Emily maybe?Ashley? Bebe?).

If you want a complete list: Meissner, Liang, Wagner, Flatt, Czisny, Nagasu.


I can count at least 4 that have had complete meltdowns at Worlds, and the other 2 aren't off the hook as I don't remember them doing great either. So in general, you're right.


So my point is that Rachael is being villainized as though she single-handedly failed to get 3 spots and when there were other skaters on those teams as well.

Yes, but I think people are referring to 2011.

FSfan107
06-16-2011, 06:20 PM
As inconsistent as she is, with her triples being downgraded on a semi-regular basis?

I have to defend Mirai a little here. She is hardly being downgraded on her jumps like she used to be. She has improved greatly in this regard under Carroll. She won the free skate at 4CC's with a clean skate over Asada and Ando. I really don't think Mirai under-rotates jumps more so than any other lady (minus maybe a health Yu-Na) presently. Having said that, that doesn't guarantee she would have secured the 3 spots for the U.S. I do think she was much healthier and more ready than Rachael to compete.

I do not hate Rachael, and feel badly for her that she has to deal with this publicly. She was partly responsible so I think it is the correct decision by the USFS. She made a mistake, which people are prone to do and I hope she doesn't feel like people think less of her. If it was any other skater, I would feel the same way. As I said before, the USFS and/or the PSA need to come down harshly on Tom Z. He let Rachael down.

FrouFrou
06-16-2011, 06:26 PM
Again, I'm not blaming anyone here in particular. But I agree, since Kwan/Cohen left in 2006, no one has stepped up to the plate. No World/Oly medals since 2006. Every time there seems to be an opening, one of our team members has had a meltdown. And it's been someone different every time.


This is really only a woulda-coulda-shoulda at this point.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.
Agreed.


I am curious, did Rachael get the job done at nationals? Would her performance vs Mirai's have scored better at Worlds?

Yes. Rachael's pcs probably would have been noticeably lower than Mirai's on an int'l stage, but re-watch Mirai's long at nationals + with dg-happy Amano = you betcha.

Pikachuusb
06-16-2011, 06:42 PM
Point of the matter was Flatt got reprimanded & fined(which I agree with) and Tom Z NEEDS to be as well. I await the USFSA's reprimand for him. Whether she was taking one for the team/selfish/didnt know etc, doesnt matter. She & her team broke rules & reprimands should happen.

Tom has a history of this and a real investigation should be happening at this point.

The last time I was a fan of Rachael was 2007, but all of this debating over several seasons losing out on 3 spots for Worlds is beating a dead horse. The only thing we should be talking about is this years Worlds & possibly the future.

As happy as I am that a ruling/reprimand came down for Rachael in this situation, I feel they should have announced it at the same time as Tom's. He better not get away with this.

As pleased as I am that they didnt sweep this under the rug..I also feel that the USFSA needs to do a better job monitoring their athletes across the board. I hope they improve in this sense. I also feel that they need to stop holding up athletes in National competitions.