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skatemommy
06-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Well, they used to do it with the free leg straight, before it was a feature to bend it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi6DnkGxnqM

Yet another thing about pairs that COP has ruined. My least favorite part is the spiral sequence - watching a male pair skater grab his blade and attempt to hoist it above the hip :yikes:

taf2002
06-15-2011, 08:42 PM
^actually, the free leg is not lifted in the FORWARD outside death spiral

^^thanks Sylvia as usual :)

Sorry, I was trying to devise a simple way to identify the different ones that I forgot about FODS. It seems that BODS are more common than forward.

skatemommy
06-15-2011, 08:50 PM
^actually taf, I'm wrong. The old-fashioned FODS were done with a straight let. I forgot that the COP death spirals could actually have the lady's free leg over her head all in the name of points :) Can you tell which one I like better? Also hate pair spins now...

Castlerock
06-15-2011, 08:53 PM
What is supposed to be the correct position of the lady? Sometimes they are very low to the ice and feet together. Other times it looks like they are having a hard time arching their back and the foot is way up and bent?

gkelly
06-15-2011, 09:32 PM
What is supposed to be the correct position of the lady? Sometimes they are very low to the ice and feet together. Other times it looks like they are having a hard time arching their back and the foot is way up and bent?

Here are the guidelines for the tech panel calling death spirals and their features, which may answer some of your questions:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/First%20Aid%20Pairs.pdf

It seems to me from years of watching but not paying close attention that on the back inside death spiral sometimes the lady is supine (face up) with the handhold leading the travel of her body, and sometimes she is prone (body facing down) but arched up to look up at the partner, with her blade leading and the handhold following her body. That body position is also common in forward inside death spirals.

Are there any pair skaters reading here who can confirm? And is it possible to transition from one to the other of those positions just by speeding up or slowing down the lady's travel in relation to the man's, or are the two possible positions mutually exclusive in the same death spiral?

I don't have time to look for examples, but maybe I will later.

5Ali3
06-16-2011, 12:05 AM
Here are the guidelines for the tech panel calling death spirals and their features, which may answer some of your questions:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/First%20Aid%20Pairs.pdf

That document is outdated, because the definition of a death spiral changed - again - this year. The traditional idea of a death spiral is that the man is in a pivot position while the lady circles around him, supported by one blade and connected one-hand-to-one-hand. When boys were men and Mr. Nicks and Luddy ran the world, the boys were supposed to be in a low pivot, sitting back as far as possible, while the girls were as low to the ice as possible; there was (ideally) a single straight line that extended from the girl's skating leg through her linked arm to the boy's linked arm to the boy's free arm. Meno and Sand are a great example of this style of death spirals.

When death spirals got levels, they started getting higher and higher and higher and uglier: unanticipated consequences. Over the past (what are we at now: five years? six years?) half-decade, the ISU keeps becoming stricter about the position in the death spiral. This year's new rule says that a death spiral will receive NO VALUE if the lady's head never reaches the level of her knee, with her hip about in line with the knee-head connection. This is NOT the traditional position, because it eliminated the arch that has been the traditional goal of the lady's position. At the moment, the word on the street is that this new provision requires only that the lady's head reach the level of her knee-hip for a split-second. This isn't in writing yet, but it's supposed to be in the official clarifications out of Frankfurt. :shuffle:


It seems to me from years of watching but not paying close attention that on the back inside death spiral sometimes the lady is supine (face up) with the handhold leading the travel of her body, and sometimes she is prone (body facing down) but arched up to look up at the partner, with her blade leading and the handhold following her body. That body position is also common in forward inside death spirals.

The IJS position rules eliminated the upward-facing position several years ago; it doesn't allow the head-hip-knee requirement, so it's no-value.


And is it possible to transition from one to the other of those positions just by speeding up or slowing down the lady's travel in relation to the man's, or are the two possible positions mutually exclusive in the same death spiral?.

Do you mean the BiDS face-up and BiDS twisted-over? Um... [contorts body] Well, I guess that it's possible, but that doesn't explain why someone would want to. Why don't we have a smilie for "my back hurts just thinking about it?" I suppose this will have to do: :irina1: (:lol:)

lt901
06-16-2011, 01:37 AM
Keep in mind that the skater's body position (leg extension, back arch, head placement) will be affected by the skater's anatomy: how the skeleton is articulated, and the proportion of weight carried on each side of the midline, as well as the physical range of motion of the shoulders, spine and hips. The coach may wish to have a skater try for an unusual position, but there are physical limits unique to each skater.