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Orable
06-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Would love to read y'alls thoughts on this controversial essay (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576146321725889448.html) from the WSJ:

Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This "pre-adulthood" has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it's time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn't bring out the best in men.

...

Today's pre-adult male is like an actor in a drama in which he only knows what he shouldn't say. He has to compete in a fierce job market, but he can't act too bossy or self-confident. He should be sensitive but not paternalistic, smart but not cocky. To deepen his predicament, because he is single, his advisers and confidants are generally undomesticated guys just like him.

Single men have never been civilization's most responsible actors; they continue to be more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers. So we can be disgusted if some of them continue to live in rooms decorated with "Star Wars" posters and crushed beer cans and to treat women like disposable estrogen toys, but we shouldn't be surprised.

Cheylana
06-10-2011, 05:30 PM
Where have they gone...have they ever existed in the first place? :rolleyes: Sorry, feeling rather jaded today.

Aaron W
06-10-2011, 05:39 PM
All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out. :D

CynicElle
06-10-2011, 05:45 PM
So is it weird that they're claiming this is a new phenomenon but illustrating the article with photos of movie characters from the 60s and 70s? (And earlier, in Marty's case?)

Anyway, I can't say I know *that* many 20-something men these days, but my nephews were in that age bracket until recently and neither one fits the "slacker" stereotype at all except for liking Star Wars, which I didn't realize was a character defect. It does seem like people are waiting longer to get married, but I'm not sure that's automatically a bad thing either.

This article just sounds like yet another "Man, the kids these days suck, unlike back in (some golden age that never existed in reality)" lament to me.

jenny12
06-10-2011, 05:56 PM
All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out. :D

:respec:

Anyway, I think the author's just pissed that she can't get a date. There's never been an ideal generation of anyone.

Orable
06-10-2011, 06:07 PM
All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out. :D
:P


So is it weird that they're claiming this is a new phenomenon but illustrating the article with photos of movie characters from the 60s and 70s? (And earlier, in Marty's case?)

This article just sounds like yet another "Man, the kids these days suck, unlike back in (some golden age that never existed in reality)" lament to me.
I got that sense, too. In my job, I interact regularly with college students and post-college folks and, honestly, most of the people I deal with may be a little naive/inexperienced, but they're not slackers. She sounds like a bitter Gen X'er, trying to get her digs in at the Millennials. One thing I did agree with is when she writes that young people today want their jobs to be their careers and their careers should be an extension of their self-defined personhood. I think that's a fair assessment.

Rex
06-10-2011, 06:26 PM
Was it ever perfect? The sexes have been complaining about each other since Adam and Eve.

Nan
06-10-2011, 07:01 PM
On a white horse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOPuGBg_W0

:D

Matryeshka
06-10-2011, 07:09 PM
I would MUCH RATHER have an immature, pre-adolescent man of today than all the manly-men of yesteryear combined.

Give me someone with a Star Wars poster who crushes beer can than some guy who regards women simply as possession who breeds, worth slightly less than a horse. If she thinks guys today treat women as "estrogen toys" she needs to seriously brush up on her social history. Reading a romance novel written in the 1970s would be an eye-opening experience (he kidnapped her, slapped her, raped her, but then they got married and it was TOTALLY romantic. :rolleyes: ) for this author.

I also don't think she'd appreciate it too much if a male wrote an article called "Where have all the good females gone" that lamented a time when women dressed in skirts and dresses and slaved away at the stove, catering solely to her man's needs.

Beyond that, the whole article is badly written and muddled. I'm really not sure what point she's trying to make. Star Wars is for geeks? Men can't be men while the economy is down because having a job is the definite characteristic of adulthood? All single men are dumb and need a woman to make them smart?

Wiery
06-10-2011, 08:32 PM
All of the good men are here in DC this weekend for Pride. Lots of men with college degrees, high paying jobs, fabulous condos, and obsessed with exercising/working out. :D

:D

Satellitegirl
06-10-2011, 08:40 PM
I'm fairly immature myself, and I'm attracted to the geeks with star wars and lord of the rings posters. My last relationship was with someone 7 years younger than me. People can keep their Mad Men idealistic men. I'll take the geeks. :)

nubka
06-10-2011, 08:41 PM
I have one... :shuffle:

Lainerb
06-10-2011, 08:41 PM
My good man is home here with me, rubbing my feet as a I post on FSU(incidentally I am a good man as well). I guess perhaps most good men are simply attracted to other 'good men' rather than to women?

mmscfdcsu
06-10-2011, 08:54 PM
It is not just men. This has been going on for some time. Even way back when I was in college there was information out on the developing stage of development called Youth. People are sort of completing tasks of adolescence but not moving on to adulthood emotionally. Pretty common nowdays even in those who have taken on adult tasks such as job and family. They still exhibit a huge amount of immaturity through the thirties and even later. :confused:

Beefcake
06-10-2011, 09:04 PM
Where have they gone...have they ever existed in the first place? :rolleyes: Sorry, feeling rather jaded today.
((( Cheylana ))) I'm sorry that you're unattactive having a sad/jaded day. :slinkaway

But seriously ... Hang in there, girl. Here at my workplace I see many impressive twenty and thirtysomething men ... all probably straight, good-looking, able, polite, and seemingly honest. :) Can't vouch for their respective living situations (and I think that some are into "gaming" on their BlackBerries), but I think "they - 'good men'" are out there!