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missflick
06-03-2011, 10:48 PM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-news/students-paid-100-000-not-college-200920592.html

BigB08822
06-03-2011, 11:08 PM
Incredibly mis leading title, they aren't just sitting at home. They got a JOB. College is incredibly overvalued right now and I completely agree that is a giant bubble waiting to burst. The only reason I went back to my degree is because I couldn't get a job teaching without it. Children go to college without a clue of what they want to do with their life and waste so much time and money. I think students should wait and go when they know what they want to do. I know some figure it out while in college and that is great but from my experience the MAJORITY of people I know are either not using their degree at all or got a job with their degree but not in their area of study.

Prancer
06-03-2011, 11:50 PM
from my experience the MAJORITY of people I know are either not using their degree at all or got a job with their degree but not in their area of study.

Most college graduates with nonprofessional degrees will work in a field that has nothing at all to do with their college majors within seven years of graduation, so it's not just you :).

Theil has made quite a fuss about the college bubble (and to some degree, rightly so), but he always neglects to mention that he and the company that are putting up this seed money get partial ownership of all the kiddies' companies and the products they make for years to come. He's not in this to make a point about higher ed.

mila19
06-04-2011, 12:11 AM
Well don't know about how much overrated college is in your country because in mine you have 0 chance of getting a job, whatever job (besides maybe manual stuff such as a miner or shoemaker or waiter), if you don't have a University degree. Which obviously brings us to how inflationed are higher studies degrees here. Every student who wants their 2 years validated (of a 3+2 year university degree) must do the TOEFL :huh: which I find rather bizarre. We have so many private education institutes that people are getting double degrees and PHD like they're dancing lessons. It's nice to be listed as the most educated developing country in Europe though :P
That said, I agree there's a huge difference with what you acknowledge in college and what you learn in practical life but wouldn't it be safe to say that you never cease to learn anyways?

Tinami Amori
06-05-2011, 12:18 AM
That said, I agree there's a huge difference with what you acknowledge in college and what you learn in practical life but wouldn't it be safe to say that you never cease to learn anyways?

Most Americans that I've heard discussing college education (for the last 30 years) look at higher education in terms of "how much more money I can make if I get a degree" or some practical purpose. Only some, but much fewer than in Europe and in my "old country", look at the university education as just the next step in one's educational process which is a requirement to be a civilized and cultured person.

I personal don't know anyone in our circle of family, friends and their families who does not have a university degree. One must go to university after one finishes 10 or 12 grades of first level of schooling...... That's how it's done, or your education is not completed....

mag
06-05-2011, 01:32 AM
I can't believe I'm about to agree .... but, yes, whatever happened to the idea that going to university is about the education? I went because I wanted to further my education. I ended up moving into an area that also helped with my job search, but it is not like I learned practical stuff that helped in the first few years of employment. That kind of training is what you get at a technical school here. What I learned at university had more to do with a way of thinking and problem solving. With opening up my mind to stuff I didn't even know I didn't know. Now I didn't go straight through either. I did my first year then took some time off to work and travel and then I went back. But I completely disagree that one needs to know what kind of career ones wants prior to going to university or it is a waste of time. Education is a good goal in and of itself.

Prancer
06-05-2011, 02:33 AM
I can't believe I'm about to agree .... but, yes, whatever happened to the idea that going to university is about the education?

A 300% increase in tuition, a crappy economy, and relatively poor post-graduation employment rates. The days when a college degree was rare and valuable and thus an asset in the job market are pretty much gone. The average US college graduate owes about $25K upon graduation. That's a lot of debt to carry if you don't have a job or at least good prospects.

Tinami Amori
06-05-2011, 02:51 AM
A 300% increase in tuition, a crappy economy, and relatively poor post-graduation employment rates. The days when a college degree was rare and valuable and thus an asset in the job market are pretty much gone. The average US college graduate owes about $25K upon graduation. That's a lot of debt to carry if you don't have a job or at least good prospects.

That is all true. But some families (most of them from "old world countries) do not consider high-school education as a "final step in general education" and "university" as optional. In my family and everyone I know, we consider standard education incomplete without attending a university.

During high-school one can't work, and it costs money also, but people pay it, because it is considered a requirement. For us a university education is a continuation of this "minimal educational requirement". It does not matter how much it costs, and if one can earn money without it.

When come across people without university education I consider their standard education level required “before entering adulthood” to be incomplete. Same as if they did not graduate from high-school.

Prancer
06-05-2011, 03:04 AM
That is all true. But some families (most of them from "old world countries) do not consider high-school education as a "final step in general education" and "university" as optional. In my family and everyone I know, we consider standard education incomplete without attending a university.

During high-school one can't work, and it costs money also, but people pay it, because it is considered a requirement. For us a university education is a continuation of this "minimal educational requirement". It does not matter how much it costs, and if one can earn money without it.

When come across people without university education I consider their standard education level required “before entering adulthood” to be incomplete. Same as if they did not graduate from high-school.

*shrug*

People make their choices in life based on what they want and consider important. Nothing unusual in that.

BigB08822
06-05-2011, 03:18 AM
I'm not worried about whether I feel "complete" in my education or whether people will think of me as a properly cultured person. I am worried about whether the investment ($$) is going to be worth it after I get my degree. If not then why do it? I don't have the extra money to spend if it wont make me money back later. In the US a college education is too expensive to not use later. Maybe in other countries their higher education is much more affordable so it is not seen as a $$ issue in the long term.

Tinami Amori
06-05-2011, 06:35 AM
I'm not worried about whether I feel "complete" in my education or whether people will think of me as a properly cultured person. I am worried about whether the investment ($$) is going to be worth it after I get my degree. If not then why do it? I don't have the extra money to spend if it wont make me money back later. In the US a college education is too expensive to not use later. Maybe in other countries their higher education is much more affordable so it is not seen as a $$ issue in the long term.

Like Prancer said, it is strictly an individual’s choice to attend university or not, and for what reasons. One can also stop attending high-school after the 10 grade, take GDE exam and go to work…. Or not take a GDE exam and go to work….. :lol: …. or not go to work and claim some kind of disability or misfortune and get on some kind of government support … everything is possible in America today. Lately one is an “enemy of the common people” only if one graduated from college and has a good paying job or a successful business….. :D.

I am agreeing with Mila and Mag – getting an education is about “getting an education”.

Mila is absolutely right by stating a fact – that for certain level of jobs, in Europe, in Russia, in few other countries that I know of, a person without a college degree would not even be considered regardless of other skills, qualities, experience and every genius bone and brain wave in one body…. Because there is a different standard for what’s considered a “complete education”.

Yes, university education is expensive. It’s expensive everywhere, now-days. But by making various sacrifices and advanced planning for such expense for child/children in a given family, a family shows its good character and respect for the high standard of education. It reflects well on the child, who later grows up, gets education, and seeks employment. When a person’s whole family was supportive of child’s education – the family appears more respectable and probably raised the child responsible and productive – that’s why he is more likely to be hired than one without this segment of education.

That is not to say that knowledge, talent, abilities, what one learned are not important. But companies can get employees with all those positive aspects AND a university degree.

Why go without something that is so valued all over the world and provides you with valuable knowledge presented in an organized and planned form, which you carry with you all your life even if you don't use it at work immediately?

victoriaheidi
06-05-2011, 06:41 AM
Incredibly mis leading title, they aren't just sitting at home. They got a JOB. College is incredibly overvalued right now and I completely agree that is a giant bubble waiting to burst. The only reason I went back to my degree is because I couldn't get a job teaching without it. Children go to college without a clue of what they want to do with their life and waste so much time and money. I think students should wait and go when they know what they want to do. I know some figure it out while in college and that is great but from my experience the MAJORITY of people I know are either not using their degree at all or got a job with their degree but not in their area of study.

That's a pretty strong generalization.

BigB08822
06-05-2011, 07:17 AM
I went on to say that some figure it out while in college and I think it goes without saying that some go into college knowing exactly what they want to do. I tend to think that is the exception rather than the rule, though.

PDilemma
06-05-2011, 04:42 PM
Mila is absolutely right by stating a fact – that for certain level of jobs, in Europe, in Russia, in few other countries that I know of, a person without a college degree would not even be considered regardless of other skills, qualities, experience and every genius bone and brain wave in one body…. Because there is a different standard for what’s considered a “complete education”.


That is true here in the States as well. I have seen many smart people with much life experience be shut out of jobs they could do because they don't have a bachelor's degree.

And the difference in income between people with post high school education of any kind and those without is still statistically in favor of continuing education. For some reason, this recession has convinced a lot of people that flipping burgers for minimum wage is a better choice. :rolleyes:

skatemommy
06-05-2011, 05:06 PM
Wow, I am agreeing with Tinami...I thought I knew what I wanted to do "when I grew up" but the broader educational opportunities at the university changed my mind. College is not for everyone, but I do agree that post-secondary education is important. Trade school, cosmetology, electrician/plumber apprenticeship, junior college, nursing, massage therapy are all viable fields that one cannot go into with just a high school diploma.

(ps..good topic!)