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judgejudy27
06-06-2011, 04:33 AM
I don't think we will ever see Weaver and Poje as world champions. They could be medalists, but they just don't have that special something that world champion ice dance teams have. I think they can maybe hang on to the Canada #2 spot until after Sochi (or #1 if Virtue and Moir retire), but Paul and Islam will be hot on their heels the whole way. OTOH I think P&I could be future world champions, but not until after 2014.

I agree with you but I never saw C&P as future World Champions either. And the fact a group of younger teams passed them by the end of the season only confirms that.

W&P have already gone further than most people think they were ever going to so I commend them for that.

blue_idealist
06-06-2011, 04:34 AM
I agree with you but I never saw C&P as future World Champions either. And the fact a group of younger teams passed them by the end of the season only confirms that.

W&P have already gone further than most people think they were ever going to so I commend them for that.

Yeah, I definitely didn't see Crone and Poirier as future world champions either.. I didn't mean that I did..

geoskate
06-06-2011, 05:04 AM
but I find their overall skating weak and was quite shocked to see them fifth at Worlds, even with clean skates.

You shock easily. I hope your heart will be able to take any future success that they may have.



W&P have already gone further than most people think they were ever going to so I commend them for that.

What W/P have going for them, I think, is a very strong work ethic and a strong desire to be the best they can be. That will IMO take them a lot further than some people expect.

Actually I think Paul/Islam may have much of the same attitude, which is why I expect a lot from them. Those attitudes go a lot further than great talent, although Paul/Islam also have that.

I'm wondering why we are discussing whether or not W/P can become a world champion or not, or whether C/P could have done it. It seems like we have been spoiled by V/M. Even getting on the PODIUM for a Canadian team used to be an extremely rare event, even for Grand Prix events let alone the GPF or worlds (except for Bourne/Kraatz).

dramagrrl
06-06-2011, 05:15 AM
You shock easily. I hope your heart will be able to take any future success that they may have.
Don't worry; I'm sure my heart will be fine... not that I'm anticipating much more shock of that nature from W&P. If it comes, I will be pleasantly surprised; if it doesn't, I will not be all that disappointed, as they have already exceeded my expectations.


I'm wondering why we are discussing whether or not W/P can become a world champion or not, or whether C/P could have done it. It seems like we have been spoiled by V/M. Even getting on the PODIUM for a Canadian team used to be an extremely rare event, even for Grand Prix events let alone the GPF or worlds (except for Bourne/Kraatz).
The pre-CoP world of ice dance and today's world of ice dance are very different places. When North America seems to be ruling the dance world and Canada had three teams in the World top 10, why shouldn't people be looking at our teams and wondering if they have what it takes to go the full distance?

judgejudy27
06-06-2011, 05:28 AM
You shock easily. I hope your heart will be able to take any future success that they may have.




What W/P have going for them, I think, is a very strong work ethic and a strong desire to be the best they can be. That will IMO take them a lot further than some people expect.

Actually I think Paul/Islam may have much of the same attitude, which is why I expect a lot from them. Those attitudes go a lot further than great talent, although Paul/Islam also have that.

I'm wondering why we are discussing whether or not W/P can become a world champion or not, or whether C/P could have done it. It seems like we have been spoiled by V/M. Even getting on the PODIUM for a Canadian team used to be an extremely rare event, even for Grand Prix events let alone the GPF or worlds (except for Bourne/Kraatz).


Agree with all you said. I think Weaver & Poje's biggest asset is their determination. Even after dissapointments of the constant losses to C/P ( a few of those questionable in nature IMO, but obviously there will be differing viewpoints on this), and struggles to make it back onto a World team and/or make an impact internationally, they continue to push themselves and fight. They also have been willing to look for new coaches or outside help, whatever they need to get better. That attitude will take them a long way.

And I also entirely agree that some people seem spoiled by Virtue & Moir. Canada probably wont be able to produce another Virtue & Moir for a long time to come. They are probably one of the greatest teams in history already. Any medal for a Canadian team at Worlds in dance is a wonderful feat, even a top 5 is something to be happy about. It is just good we have alot of depth of strong teams in Canada now, even if one of them is retiring.

overedge
06-06-2011, 05:35 AM
Canada probably wont be able to produce another Virtue & Moir for a long time to come.

And how many countries (other than Russia) have consistently produced world champions in ice dance over the past decade or so? It's not like Canada has no good ice dance coaches or training facilities, or that Canadian ice dancing has no other good teams with potential.

Proustable
06-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Historically? The UK. France had three in twenty years (Duchesnays, A/P, DelShoes). The shift to COP really has helped North American dance, though, and I fully expect both Canada and the USA to increase their presence at the tip-top of the podium.

ioana
06-06-2011, 03:05 PM
When they won Skate Canada earlier this season beating the Kerrs with a dance that looked very good for an early GP, I thought they were on their way to being (outside) medal contenders at Worlds. Not entirely sure if the pressure got to them, or if they were already moving in different directions as the season went on, but Eleanor Rigby never got much better as the season progressed. And, since everyone else started improving their FD, their results started getting worse.

overedge
06-06-2011, 04:48 PM
Historically? The UK. France had three in twenty years (Duchesnays, A/P, DelShoes).

I said "over the past decade or so".

Proustable
06-06-2011, 05:26 PM
.... (oops)

euterpe
06-06-2011, 05:44 PM
When they won Skate Canada earlier this season beating the Kerrs with a dance that looked very good for an early GP, I thought they were on their way to being (outside) medal contenders at Worlds. Not entirely sure if the pressure got to them, or if they were already moving in different directions as the season went on, but Eleanor Rigby never got much better as the season progressed. And, since everyone else started improving their FD, their results started getting worse.

At SC, top seed V/M had withdrawn from their GP events due to Tessa's injury. Aside from the Kerrs (who admittedly had had limited FD practice due to her shoulder injury), the rest of the roster were no threat (Chock / Zuerlein, Paul / Islam, Carron / Jones, Gorshkova / Butikov, Arnold / Trojek, Frohberg / Geisen, Tibbetts / Brubaker). And C/P probably got a bit of a score boost for the home ice factor; they never scored as high again the entire season.

Beefcake
06-06-2011, 06:10 PM
I did get the feeling they were semi-dumped at worlds...
Yep. In tandem with some B&S and I&K overscoring, someone had to be emphatically dumped to achieve the "magic number" for Russia. ;)

C&P got that short straw, and I think correctly interpreted that writing on the wall. < (This clich-fortified sentence brought to you by my mid-morning brain lull.)

zotza
06-06-2011, 06:33 PM
I honestly can't see in what way B/S and I/K were overscored at Worlds.They had their mistakes but C/P had mistakes too.And all three teams were penalised for them.I can't see how much better C/P are than these two couples.It's getting old with all this anti Russian thing.
And Canada needed the same "magic number" as well.Can we say that this is way W/P were "overmarked"?Of course they weren't.
C/P at SC were great.I was particularly impressed by their FD.But competition after competition it seemed that they were regressing.It didn't have the same impact to me at least.Yet they almost got the same marks as in SC if I'm not mistaken.

leigh466
06-06-2011, 08:37 PM
I loved their FD and am very sorry to see this happen. I suspect poor Vanessa took a lot of heat in spite of her obvious improvements.

euterpe
06-06-2011, 08:37 PM
C/P at SC were great.I was particularly impressed by their FD.But competition after competition it seemed that they were regressing.It didn't have the same impact to me at least.Yet they almost got the same marks as in SC if I'm not mistaken.

C/P's Skate Canada score was higher than all the scores in later events, and that is rather unusual for a top 6 team from 2009-2010. Most teams show a distinct improvement as the season unfolds. Compare C/P's score progression to other teams, in particular the teams who placed ahead of them at Worlds. C/P's scores stagnated or regressed, while the other teams' scores gradually improved.

Note that the GPF was a bit of an outlier: all the teams except D/W and P/B scored significantly lower than they did in their GP events.


Crone/Poirier
151.13 61.01 90.12 Worlds
151.83 61.66 90.17 4CC
139.74 54.82 84.92 GPF
149.08 60.41 88.67 Skate America
154.42 62.95 91.47 Skate Canada

Weaver/Poje:
160.32 65.07 95.25 Worlds
151.14 65.45 85.69 4CC
136.34 55.51 80.83 GPF
142.34 59.48 82.86 SA
141.57 58.69 82.88 NHK

Bobrova/Soloviev:
160.23 65.88 94.35 Worlds
161.14 65.46 95.68 Euros
136.75 54.33 82.42 GPF
154.33 60.80 93.53 Cup of Russia
145.39 55.85 89.54 Cup of China

Shibutanis:
163.79 66.88 96.91 Worlds
155.38 62.04 93.34 4CC
144.81 56.46 88.35 Skate America
136.93 53.68 83.25 NHK

Ilyinik/Katsalapov:
154.50 65.51 88.99 Worlds
153.48 60.93 92.55 Euros
134.79 49.14 85.65 Cup of Russia
135.05 56.89 78.16 NHK

Chock/Zuerlein:
151.86 61.47 90.39 Worlds
142.44 57.14 85.30 4CC
138.48 58.09 80.39 TEB
139.05 54.19 84.86 Skate Canada