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Matryeshka
05-31-2011, 08:00 PM
men do? I did feel badly for the gypsies who had their trailer site demolished. They claimed they had no place to go but the little boy (Jerry) said something about having to live in houses & apartments that were offered to them & the families didn't want to do that. They don't want to assimilate. Other ethnic groups have had to & still were able to retain their culture & embrace their heritage.



It's an easy series to sneer at and ridicule - let's face it, there's a lot of ammunition proved in the dresses alone - however as the series progressed, I found myself questioning my own attitudes to the traveller community. While the ridiculous dresses initially pull you in, there's a lot to be gleaned as it progresses.


floskate, I agree.

Similar groups - of various ethnic backgrounds - have been ridiculed. treated as "outcasts" ;and regarded as part of the "criminal element" by many, for hundreds of years.
How would we feel, if we were in their position?

This is the basic problem and contradiction with Traveller culture--you can't have it both ways. The world changes, and your culture either adapts with it, or it die out forever. You can't be an exclusive, secretive culture that mistrusts and largely will not accept outsiders and then complain when those outsiders don't understand/misinterpret that secretive culture.

I am sympathetic to their plight, and I have two images in my mind I keep going back to: a traveller on the ground being beaten like a stray dog, and the image of a sixteen year old bride forced to drop out of school at 11 who will know no life outside of that. IMO, both acts are equally criminal.

There are elements of this that remind me of some of the crisis faced by European Jews starting in the late 18th century--can you be Jewish AND be German/French/English, etc., and how much do you give up one to be the other? Can you assimilate and still be true to your culture and/or religion? Ultimately, for most, the answer was yes, you can have multiple identities and live with a foot in both worlds.

If I were in their situation, I'd probably be outraged, scared and saddened because I wouldn't know any other way of life. However, I can say that seeing a small glimpse of this life (admittedly, a skewed version on TV), I would never trade mine for theirs. I can't imagine any girl with a half-way decent education trading either.

antmanb
06-02-2011, 03:01 PM
I found that it did make me question my own attitiudes towards travellers, however, the stigma will always remain for as long as big communities set up camp in areas and constantly break the law.

The site that was shown at the same time as the one that was demolished, is in Essex (Dale Farm?) and is the biggest illegal gypsy site in Europe. The police are too scared to go down there. None of the buildings on the land have planning permission but if anyone from the council/police/anywhere official steps on site they are attacked.

All of the buildings have been hooked into the power lines/water pipes/sewage lines illegally and nothing is paid for. When the council turn up to the disconnect them they are attacked and beaten, police don't have the resources to go down there in great enough numbers and so the whole thing continues.

victoriajh
06-04-2011, 07:14 AM
I suppose that "feces-dropping child-abusing pickpocketing scammers" wouldn't be appreciated by them either,.

i am gonna go with "NO" but then again they Do liek the dresses......:scream:

skatesindreams
06-04-2011, 03:17 PM
The portrait of the "upwardly mobile", Caravan park-owner traveler - and his wife, was fascinating.
Very interesting as well, was the girl who had worked outside the "community" for several years, who chooses to marry into it - and wondered why she was "bored" afterwards.

BigB08822
06-04-2011, 06:39 PM
I think my DVR finally recorded one of these last night! Yes it did! woohoo

danceronice
06-04-2011, 11:40 PM
I know ONE way they pay for those dresses and overpriced furniture. You see those filthy, ungroomed, half-trained black and white cobs that look like Clydesdales crossed with dalmatians? If the Traveler's lucky, some dumb American horse-buyer comes along and pays him 5000 UK for a "genuine Gypsy Vanner", provided it has functioning gonads, and he laughs all the way to the bank while they ship it to the US and either breed more or flip it for $15,000 as an IMPORTED genuine Gypsy Vanner. (Farting butterflies and pooping rainbows optional.)

Seriously, I know one Gypsy Vanner, he's a nice horse overall if a bit stubborn (and hates my guts because when I got on him for his owner, I did not take "no" for an answer about anything I asked him to do) but not in this LIFETIME would I have paid five figures for him. Everyone over here who's fallen for the Majikal Gypsy Vanner schtick needs to watch this show and understand what they're ACTUALLY buying (not that they've listened to any of the British horsemen who've been pointing that out for years.)

heckles
06-05-2011, 12:14 AM
If the Traveler's lucky, some dumb American horse-buyer comes along and pays him 5000 UK for a "genuine Gypsy Vanner", provided it has functioning gonads, and he laughs all the way to the bank while they ship it to the US and either breed more or flip it for $15,000 as an IMPORTED genuine Gypsy Vanner.

In the past, a lot of Irish Travelers in the US made money from buying and/or stealing horses and slaughtering them for meat, which was then sold to US zoos and some countries overseas. That is illegal in the US as of 2007, but still legal in the UK.

Octoberopals
06-12-2011, 05:35 AM
Interesting show about something I've never delved too deeply in, but Thank Goodness for the subtitles when those with heavy accents speak.

I am somewhat curious at the complete outlandishness of all the weddings.......they are not the Kardashanins [sp?] or The Royal House of Windsor......so where on earth does all that money come from to pay for all the goodies?????

Anyway, it's an enjoyable show as it is a total escape from most real lives.

skatesindreams
06-12-2011, 04:57 PM
The first communions and weddings appear to be this group's only chance to experience their idea of glamour/fantasy and escape the sameness of their daily lives.
They seem to represent the only thing that the girls/women can look forward to, plan for, anticipate and enjoy during their entire life.

We may find it sad; but, their society/tradition doesn't allow them to expect more.

BTW, TLC has asked American Travellers to contact them re: a new program.
I wonder if anyone has done so.

BigB08822
06-12-2011, 05:28 PM
I don't like to blame the victim but in this case it seems appropriate in some instances. The girls mention how they are always getting "grabbed" by the guys and speaking about how they are so misunderstood. They say everyone thinks they are whores and they can never go anywhere alone with a guy or their reputation will be tarnished. HELLO!? They dress worse than most street walkers. No wonder everyone thinks you are a whore! They literally think you are a prostitute, probably.

skatesindreams
06-12-2011, 05:40 PM
They dress worse than most street walkers. No wonder everyone thinks you are a whore! They literally think you are a prostitute, probably.

Their choice of attire has a lot to do with their idea of what they think is glamorous/attractive; probably much influenced by the "celebrities" they see on television, since they don't have access to other role models.

Latte
06-12-2011, 08:54 PM
I've been watching it. Entertaining, but, I feel sorry for those girls. They are not much more than slaves. The one one today said she could hardly read or write. No wonder they don't have the courage to go out in the world and they march to their slavery because they are taught there is nothing else for them.
And I bet that the 16 year olds we see getting married are not the norm.
The broadcasters probably can't show the 13 or 14 year old brides.
I just have one question.
Why is it they all have huge boobs? Does no one have small breasts?
They don't look like implants, but, who knows.:eek:

heckles
06-12-2011, 09:49 PM
No wonder everyone thinks you are a whore! They literally think you are a prostitute, probably.

So if these women are considered prostitutes by the Irish Traveler men, why don't the Irish Traveler men offer to pay them before they drag them off? The guys interviewed on the show planned on "grabbing" before they even got to the events, so what these women wore was secondary at best. What they call "grabbing" is known as sexual assault by most reasonable people, and it's very interesting that the BBC version featured the women screaming, but TLC has muted that out.

skatesindreams
06-12-2011, 10:01 PM
The men seem to view girls/women as "property" and available for whatever they want to do.
There was a bit of screaming/protest heard during the "grabbing" in one of the episodes; but, no one came to the girl's aid.

danceronice
06-13-2011, 04:11 AM
In the past, a lot of Irish Travelers in the US made money from buying and/or stealing horses and slaughtering them for meat, which was then sold to US zoos and some countries overseas. That is illegal in the US as of 2007, but still legal in the UK.

Why would you do that now anyway? You can get a truckload for $80 a horse at any low-end auction (Camelot, Unadilla, New Holland, Sugarcreek, Shipshewana...) and Canadian and Mexican slaughterhouses are still buying. Totally legal, happens all the time. If you don't mind the brokers mark 'em way up, and are willing to gamble there's a good reason it's in the kill pen, you can get cheap horses that way. Actually it's legal to slaughter horses in the US, too, in most states (California bans slaughter for human consumption but they're a bit law-happy), it's just a bunch of NIMBYs would rather have them shipped to non-purpose-built houses out of the country rather than have local abattoirs. (At least Canada odds are they go to processors who use a bolt gun. The ones shipped to Mexico are sometimes being processed for local use instead of shipping to the EU and instead of using a bolt they spike them in the neck. Or worse, they get pulled out of the kill pen and used for Mexican rodeo.) There's a US black market for horse meat, but it's not zoos (proper zoos don't buy fresh, they buy sourced carnivore diets, big cat farms have more people wanting to surrender livestock than they could ever accommodate these days), it's for people who want to eat it. The problem isn't slaughtering a horse to eat, it's selling it--you can buy a horse and slaughter it for your own use, you aren't allowed to sell it out the back of a truck.

Gypsy Vanners are good buys for the kill buyers, to a degree--they're big, lots of weight, though a lot of it IS bone. And since they're a fad here, that means a lot of badly-bred ones to send on. It was Friesans a few years ago, but GVs are smaller and easier to handle, but you still get the feather flowy manes and tales. :rolleyes:

The ones at the horse fair on the last episode I saw (with the boys gone to the horse fair to look for girls) didn't look as nice as the ones that get sold overseas. Though I like the little ponies pulling sulkies.