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AragornElessar
05-28-2011, 05:04 AM
I didn't even know this was on tonight, but was going through the guide to see what was on after Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Final of the Stanley Cup Playoffs and saw it coming on Seattle ABC (Our western US networks on our dish). OMG...

If Jamie still has hair left at the end of this go round, I'll be surprised because I'd already be pulling mine out in frustration at just a little bit of what's going on in just this first episode. Apparently they had an agreement w/the LA School Board to go in this year and then they yanked the permits from what I understand. So he went on Ryan Seacrest's radio show to get the word out to the parents about what was going on and invited them to his LA Headquarters to talk about things.

There are actual schools out there giving their kids a cold breakfast of sugary cereal w/*chocolate* milk!?! Really!?! And then they wonder why hyperactivity is so rampant in the schools? He had the parents bring in what their kids are eating at school and it was literally looking at a pastry bakery and a really, really, really bad one at that. And that was just from Breakfast!!

Since he couldn't get into the schools, he went to a Mom and Pop fast food resturant to try and work w/the guy to swap out a few things and just give it a try. This guy literally told Jamie to his face when they were battling over what a Milkshake is, that he would never serve what he considers a Classic American Milkshake w/the syrup and ice cream that he sells in his place to his kids. When Jamie asked him point blank why then would he serve that to his customers, he tried to give excuses, but then Jamie asked him did he care about his customers and he told him no, he didn't.

We won't even go into what happened when Jamie tried to get this guy to realize that quality will always beat quanitity/mass produced meat when he tried to introduce Angus cattle meat that was responisbly raised. Even though the ones that tried it said it was better, no way, no how.

Watching this tonight might not have been the best thing in the world to do, because after only one hour, I'm boiling mad at these idiots!! I mean...How many kids these days are being "diagnoised" w/ADHD when what is really going on is the overabundance of sugar in their diets due to the crap being allowed in their schools as a meal?

I remembered we had a thread last year, so thought I'd start one for this year.

JumpinBug
05-28-2011, 05:24 AM
I've been watching too. I always find it frustrating, working as a teacher. In our school, we have no vending machines, have a healthy snack program, and have optional hot lunches twice a week, that have to meet certain healthy standards. However, I've had a student with an ADHD label that brought frosted cheerios and pop for lunch every day. Food and nutrition, especially for kids, is a major interest area of mine. I find it mind boggling that schools are allowed to provide food that is so utterly horrific.

I cannot see this ever going well for Jamie, how things are going now.

Prancer
05-28-2011, 05:49 AM
I mean...How many kids these days are being "diagnoised" w/ADHD when what is really going on is the overabundance of sugar in their diets due to the crap being allowed in their schools as a meal?

None, I would think, as sugar doesn't make kids hyperactive?

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516
http://articles.cnn.com/1999-11-22/health/9911_22_diet.sugar.myth.kids.wmd_1_sugar-and-hyperactivity-hyperactive-children-researchers?_s=PM:HEALTH
http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=9076b2c9-0730-4f1a-b6fa-5a462bb0a011&chunkiid=157003
http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2009/01/medical-myths.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/22/garden/study-disputes-link-of-sugar-to-hyperactivity.html

And so on and so on.

AragornElessar
05-28-2011, 05:53 AM
You know what's *really* sad? This is the First Lady's pet project, to try and get Americans to realize just how unhealthy the diet is and even she's been getting backlash from Congress and the Senate for her plans. I mean...When Dr. Oz is saying on his show he's starting to see teenagers in his office w/heart conditions directly related to diet and the rates of Type 2 Diabetes is sky rocketing among elementary aged kids, not to mention High Schoolers, right there the Red Alert sirens should be screaming.

I was talking about this w/a Family Friend the other day and Mom looked at me and says, "Well, you had McDonalds when you were a kid." I shot back w/,"True, but it was a once in a blue moon special treat. Not an every day every week thing like most kids experience today."

This is such a multi pronged hydra that I honestly don't know where the solution is. :(

triple_toe
05-28-2011, 05:56 AM
I really think that the major problem is that fresh, organic food is often significantly more expensive than processed, preservative-filled crap. We always had good, healthy food in my school cafeteria, but it was a private school so they could afford it. I don't really think people who buy cheezwiz and twinkies buy it for the health benefits. More like they can't afford to go to Whole Foods where they charge you $2 for an organic pesticide-free chocolate strawberry. I''m very, very lucky that my parents were able to buy only the best quality food for our family, but I know that's hardly always the case.

KatieC
05-28-2011, 12:16 PM
I can see two sides here. I came home for lunch every day through grade school, and had a healthy meal provided by my mum. In high school I carried a lunch pretty much every day that consisted of a sandwich, celery and carrots, a fruit and two cookies. When I bought my lunch, it was probably french fries. I do remember chocolate milk was available, but I never had any patience for long line ups and wouldn't waste my time in them, so I never bought milk at school. We didn't have vending machines either. On the other hand, when someone tries to make me change the way I've done something for years, I've been known to dig in my heels and not budge an inch. Has Jamie Oliver ever gone to the PTA to get acceptance there before tackling the school board?

Lurking Skater
05-28-2011, 12:41 PM
I think money and time are both factors. The schools have a small budget to get a decent healthy lunch out of. That was a constant theme last season even after Jamie got the kids and staff on board. At home, you have to have the parents willing and able to cook foods that aren't ready-made and prepackaged. My mom always cooked for us, so we didn't eat junky stuff. So you have parents buying stuff because it's cheaper and/or easier.

Jamie has managed to turn me off of chicken nuggets and ground beef with his demonstrations. I suppose that's a good thing.

Allskate
05-28-2011, 05:02 PM
I really think that the major problem is that fresh, organic food is often significantly more expensive than processed, preservative-filled crap. We always had good, healthy food in my school cafeteria, but it was a private school so they could afford it. I don't really think people who buy cheezwiz and twinkies buy it for the health benefits. More like they can't afford to go to Whole Foods where they charge you $2 for an organic pesticide-free chocolate strawberry. I''m very, very lucky that my parents were able to buy only the best quality food for our family, but I know that's hardly always the case.


I think that price is a factor, but only to a limited degree. There's no need to add sugar and coloring to milk. There's no need to have Twinkies at all. No need for potato chips and soda. But how many financially strapped families are eating that stuff, but not eating fresh fruits and vegetables? You don't have to buy a chocolate-covered strawberry from Whole Foods to eat healthier. It's like the scene in Food, Inc. where a family tells a little girl who is pre-diabetic and has a diabetic father that they cannot afford to buy her a pear at the grocery store, but two minutes earlier they had bought her orange soda from the drive-through and paid enough for the soda to buy a several pieces of fruit.

Jamie was able to find a cheaper, but better quality/healthier ground beef patty that was only ten cents more than the unidentifiable patty the fast-food person had been selling.

And, yeah, convenience and time are also factors.

But, I think that families that are willing to put in a little time for their children's health can do it, especially since most of that time is at the beginning when they are trying to figure out what is going to be both healthy and convenient and when and where to stock up on healthier food at a decent price.

modern_muslimah
05-29-2011, 03:53 AM
I think that price is a factor, but only to a limited degree. There's no need to add sugar and coloring to milk. There's no need to have Twinkies at all. No need for potato chips and soda. But how many financially strapped families are eating that stuff, but not eating fresh fruits and vegetables? You don't have to buy a chocolate-covered strawberry from Whole Foods to eat healthier. It's like the scene in Food, Inc. where a family tells a little girl who is pre-diabetic and has a diabetic father that they cannot afford to buy her a pear at the grocery store, but two minutes earlier they had bought her orange soda from the drive-through and paid enough for the soda to buy a several pieces of fruit.

Jamie was able to find a cheaper, but better quality/healthier ground beef patty that was only ten cents more than the unidentifiable patty the fast-food person had been selling.

And, yeah, convenience and time are also factors.

But, I think that families that are willing to put in a little time for their children's health can do it, especially since most of that time is at the beginning when they are trying to figure out what is going to be both healthy and convenient and when and where to stock up on healthier food at a decent price.

I would say price is a factor to a major degree a lot of times. My money is tight, fruit is a bit of luxury right now. I go to the market and it's expensive, even the fruit that is in season. Plus, there's the whole issue of food spoiling. I mean if you're not diligent about eating that fruit right away, it goes bad and you're out of money. My hubby and I think like that. I love fruit but I'll be honest and say that I don't eat it everyday.

This isn't to say that you can't get veggies, legumes or even fruit in on a tight budget but you have to work hard to do it. We brought bags of mixed beans to make bean soup. Now, I made it a bunch of times but to be honest, I never liked. It seemed like no matter what I put in it, it just tasted bland. I finally found a recipe for a Moroccan lentil soup online that tastes great. Since it's just me and my husband, the soup can literally last us an entire week. It's healthy, vegan and full of vegetables and beans. However, it takes about 20-30 mins to prepare and about an 1-1.5 hours to cook. I'm not working right now and I don't have any children, so I have a lot of time on my hands.

If you're a poor working family with 2-3 kids that meal might not be very practical because of time constraints and also because it may not stretch much. At the most, you might get two days of dinner with meal.

I know people who get food stamps and when they shop, the biggest priority is making those food stamps last and stretch. There's a lot of frozen meals, cereal, processed box food like Hamburger or Tuna Helper and can foods in the grocery basket because that food lasts and it's also filling. There might be a little bit of fruit and some fresh veggies in there but that isn't going to be the bulk of what they buy because like I said, it's relatively expensive, it doesn't last as long and it's not as filling as processed food.

There's also the issue of food deserts at play. I think a lot of people don't realize that there are neighborhoods where there are more fast food restaurants and convenience stores than grocery stores or at the very least, how much this limits your food choice. I live in a neighborhood where there is only one extremely overpriced grocery store with an extremely limited selection of food. The fruit and vegetables might be rotting. Yet there's a McDonald's, a pizza place, a convenience store that sells junk food, and a Chinese restaurant that sells mostly greasy food all within a half a mile radius. Oh and the McDonald's, convenience store and Chinese restaurant are all in the same plaza! My husband and I have to drive five miles to get to the nearest Kroger or Walmart. Whole Foods isn't even a blip on our radar screen.

Maybe the real issue for a lot of families is poverty but that can't be fixed in a one hour episode or even by reading books like The Omnivore's Dilemma. People like Jamie Kennedy seem to be oblivious to that.

Allskate
05-29-2011, 04:33 AM
I would say price is a factor to a major degree a lot of times.

I certainly think that price is a factor, but I don't think it's as huge as some people make it out to be, and it's too easy to dismiss the issue just based on cost. Many people on tight budgets do buy junk food. IMO, if someone can afford to buy potato chips, twinkies, and soda, they can afford to buy fruit and vegetables, though certainly not berries and fresh vegetables that are out of season. But, if a person can afford soda, they can afford a few apples, and those don't go rotten very quickly. They also can afford some green beans, even if canned/frozen -- which also don't go rotten. The farmers markets near me take food stamps. I realize that's not true most places, and I think it would be great if there was more of an effort to make nutritional food readily accessible to more people. In any event, though there undoubtedly are people who don't have easy access to grocery stores, many, many people do have that kind of access and still are buying food that is not healthy for their kids.

And for many families, getting enough calories is not the issue. Their kids are getting too many calories, even in families on tight budgets.

And I don't think that money plays a role in the issue of pouring sugar and coloring into milk, which is one of Jamie's chief concerns.

I realize that price is definitely a factor, I just don't think it's as big a factor in many situations as some people make it out to be.



Maybe the real issue for a lot of families is poverty but that can't be fixed in a one hour episode or even by reading books like The Omnivore's Dilemma. People like Jamie Kennedy seem to be oblivious to that.

Jamie's standards are very different from Michael Pollan's. Jamie's not asking for organic fruit and vegetables or organic, pasture-raised meat. He is asking for better nutrition. That the kids be given nutritional, real food instead of fried foods and sugar and stuff that can barely be classified as "meat." Take a look at the ingredients for the nuggets those kids were eating in West Virginia schools and the ground beef Jamie talked about in L.A..

He is not naive about cost. If you saw his show last season, much of it was about meeting the budgets of the schools. Though, yes, he does think that school food budgets should be increased. This country has an obesity and diabetes epidemic on its hands and that seems to be Jamie's main concern, which is very different from Michael Pollan's main concerns.

Prancer
05-29-2011, 04:35 AM
It's like the scene in Food, Inc. where a family tells a little girl who is pre-diabetic and has a diabetic father that they cannot afford to buy her a pear at the grocery store, but two minutes earlier they had bought her orange soda from the drive-through and paid enough for the soda to buy a several pieces of fruit.

:confused: That must have been an exceptionally expensive soda or some exceptionally cheap fruit.


Jamie was able to find a cheaper, but better quality/healthier ground beef patty that was only ten cents more than the unidentifiable patty the fast-food person had been selling.

Is it the job of a restauranteur to give his patrons healthier food at higher prices when they aren't making any kind of demand for it? It seems a bit much to me to expect a guy who owns a Mom and Pop restaurant in this economy to take that kind of risk.


I know people who get food stamps and when they shop, the biggest priority is making those food stamps last and stretch. There's a lot of frozen meals, cereal, processed box food like Hamburger or Tuna Helper and can foods in the grocery basket because that food lasts and it's also filling. There might be a little bit of fruit and some fresh veggies in there but that isn't going to be the bulk of what they buy because like I said, it's relatively expensive, it doesn't last as long and it's not as filling as processed food.

Those things are also often on sale and there are usually coupons for those who do that. Few things are cheaper than junky food on sale. Ramen noodles sure aren't healthy, but they are incredibly cheap. And food is one of the few expenses that can be controlled; you can't change your rent or your loan payments, but you can cut your food budget.

I think that a lot of people are also quite confused about what "healthy" means. Sometimes I see people post here that this food is healthy or that one isn't, and I think "What the hell?" But then I realize that most of us--including me--really don't know much. Are carbs evil or beneficial? Is fat bad or good, or does it depend on the fat, or does the type of fat even matter? Will red meat kill me or is it a great source of protien and iron? That red wine--is it really good for me, or will a glass of grape juice do? Is organic food actually good for you or is it a bunch of hype--or even harmful for you and the environment?

And while there are people who find all this fascinating and make it a focus on their lives, I think it's apparent that most people don't. "Healthy" food--in the sense of fresh, organic, local, etc.--is really the province of the earnest upper middle class. For most people, food is simply not a major focus and they see no reason why it should be, as they have other priorities.

Allskate
05-29-2011, 04:57 AM
[CENTER]
:confused: That must have been an exceptionally expensive soda or some exceptionally cheap fruit.

Soda is pretty expensive at drive-throughs. I could buy at least five bananas at Trader Joes or a few apples for the price of the least expensive soda at most fast-food restaurants.



Is it the job of a restauranteur to give his patrons healthier food at higher prices when they aren't making any kind of demand for it? It seems a bit much to me to expect a guy who owns a Mom and Pop restaurant in this economy to take that kind of risk.

I think Jamie's point was to show that there was demand for what the customers seemed to think were tastier burgers, without a huge price increase. And let's face it, this guy wasn't realy taking a risk. He's on a tv show that is going to get him tons of publicity. :lol:





And while there are people who find all this fascinating and make it a focus on their lives, I think it's apparent that most people don't. "Healthy" food--in the sense of fresh, organic, local, etc.--is really the province of the earnest upper middle class.

This may be your definition of "healthy" food, but it isn't Jamie's. This is not what he's pushing for. I'm getting the sense that some of the people being critical on this thread haven't actually watched Jamie's shows. I've never seen him ask for organic food and he's not insisting on fresh and local. Those are not his priorities. He wants less sugar, starches, and fried foods. He wants more vegetables, beans, and real meat. He doesn't think that schools should be serving milk loaded with sugar alongside french fries and fried nuggets that don't have much chicken in them. I would hope that the kinds of meals he's seeking for our school children are not considered the exclusive province of the upper middle class.

Prancer
05-29-2011, 05:15 AM
Soda is pretty expensive at drive-throughs. I could buy at least five bananas at Trader Joes or a few apples for the price of the least expensive soda at most fast-food restaurants.

I'll take your word for it; I don't go through drive-thrus. But the average cost of a fast food soda is $1.29. You can't buy a lot of fruit with that kind of money.


He's on a tv show that is going to get him tons of publicity. :lol:

Today. But he will still be there after Jamie has forgotten who he is.


This may be your definition of "healthy" food, but it isn't Jamie's.

Actually no, it isn't mine at all. It does, however, rather consistently appear to be the most popular definition on this board.

I think Jamie is one of many people trying to do something good for school lunches, but I also think that Jamie is on a TV show, which means he has a vested interest in presenting things from a particular viewpoint on his program.

Allskate
05-29-2011, 07:07 AM
I'll take your word for it; I don't go through drive-thrus. But the average cost of a fast food soda is $1.29. You can't buy a lot of fruit with that kind of money.

Perhaps it depends where you live. The TJs near me sells bananas for 19 cents each. So, that's six bananas for the price of one soda. You also could buy three apples at TJs for less than that price. The apples are even less expensive if you buy a bag of ten at the grocery store. So, three to six pieces of fruit or one fast-food soda? The fruit seems the smarter choice. It just really frustrated me to see a diabetic parent buy soda for his pre-diabetic daughter and then tell the daughter they couldn't buy her a pear, which they clearly said was half the price of the soda.

But, as I said, I think that price is only one small factor. There are poor people who eat healthy and non-poor people who don't. There are plenty of people with a decent amount of money or even a lot of money who are making poor nutritional choices for their kids and for themselves.

This whole topic is a particuarly sensitive one for me right now because I am concerned about my sister -- who, BTW, is not struggling financially. It took two miscarriages and complications in her third preganancy for her to cut out the junk food in order to get her sugar levels under control. She had hoped that her sugar levels woud be normal after she had her daughter, but they are not. The doctor has warned her that she probably will have to use insulin and deal with the side effects of diabetes if she does not go back to the healthier diet she had during her pregnancy. She really doesn't want to go back to eating healthy. Not because of cost and not because it's more convenient to eat candy and Cheetos than it is to eat vegetables and fruit. She just prefers the junk food. I get that. But, I'd really like to see her live to enjoy her daughter. And I'm really hoping that she will introduce her daughter to healthy eating habits.



Today. But he will still be there after Jamie has forgotten who he is.

Jamie wasn't asking him to make a permanent change. He wanted him to try it for a week. Different fast food joints use different qualities of meat and charge different prices, so it's really not a crazy idea to think that he might actually attract more customers with a better quality burger for ten cents more. And it's not crazy to think that some people might like a shake or smoothie that is lower in fat and calories. Especially in L.A.



Actually no, it isn't mine at all. It does, however, rather consistently appear to be the most popular definition on this board.

I'm not sure about that, but I definitely don't think that's a position that's been adopted in this thread or on Jamie's show, which is the topic of the thread.



I think Jamie is one of many people trying to do something good for school lunches, but I also think that Jamie is on a TV show, which means he has a vested interest in presenting things from a particular viewpoint on his program.

On that we can definitely agree.

Michalle
05-29-2011, 08:07 AM
The reality is that people don't like to be lectured, and they don't like to be told what to do. And it is hard to avoid feeling like there's a class issue when you do have the perception that it is predominantly white upper-middle class people seeming like they are wagging their finger at poor or working class people for not eating properly. I know that's in some ways a simplification but I think it's the perception that exists and it may be where a lot of resistance to change comes from.