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attyfan
07-05-2011, 09:32 PM
I didn't follow this case, but given the heinousness of the crime I certainly understand people being upset.

That said, I don't see anything patriotic in putting down our judicial system. I think that we have to have the standard of a reasonable doubt, maybe it failed in this case, but I don't see any patriotism in talking about our judicial system as something bad and failed. Sorry, waving the flag doesn't disguise the hatred for our system that some express.

ITA! Beefcake also got it right ... better an occasional WTF verdict with our current syst em than a different one that would risk more innocent people getting sent to jail than already exists

Vash01
07-05-2011, 09:32 PM
Yes. NG is an ugly person. I truly believe that Nancy would willfully adminster the lethal injection on many a capital case [or, why not?, a parental kidnapping case]. And why waste the taxpayers' money on a trial?! :blah: She'd do it before all that silliness.

I can't stand Nancy Grace. I change the channel immediately if I see her on the screen.

Jenna
07-05-2011, 09:36 PM
Okay, so I admit I haven't followed the trial as closely as many of you, but I do have to ask: What makes some of you so sure that Ms. Anthony murdered her daughter?

IceAlisa
07-05-2011, 09:36 PM
I have no idea who Nancy Grace is. :confused:

Casey Anthony is going to be rich.

missing is :rolleyes:

snoopy
07-05-2011, 09:38 PM
Legally, if Casey admits killing Caylee now, she is exempt from all further prosecution, correct? While she may not outright admit it, I can see her slipping up enough on the facts that would get one to the same place.

tarotx
07-05-2011, 09:46 PM
I don't know if she intentionally murdered her child but I could never have been a juror on this case because of everything that happened after the children died is enough for me to throw the bitch in jail for life. Let a lone whatever the truth is that led to the child's death.

IceAlisa
07-05-2011, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the definition, skatingfan5. This just confuses me further:


reasonable doubt n. not being sure of a criminal defendant's guilt to a moral certainty.

And what is "moral certainty"?

skatingfan5
07-05-2011, 09:48 PM
Legally, if Casey admits killing Caylee now, she is exempt from all further prosecution, correct? While she may not outright admit it, I can see her slipping up enough on the facts that would get one to the same place.Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that if Casey admitted to killing Caylee, there might be a possibility for a second trial under a different jurisdiction -- i.e. a Federal Court (trials for the Rodney King beatings by police, for example).

KHenry14
07-05-2011, 09:52 PM
Are you kidding? She'll get a huge advance and the book will fly off the shelves. People love stuff like this. I suspect a publisher has already contacted her with a ghost writer.

Really, what is she going to say in it? She may put forth a scenario of what happened in the 31 missing days, but people like Nancy Grace and Geraldo will continue to villify her, and no matter what you think of them, they do have an impact on the public perception. Also, she can't go on Oprah or Larry King, though LOTS in the media would love to interview her, I don't see that happening because she doesn't have good answers to the VERY big questions that her trial brings up. Ultimately, she's going to be a pariah, and people will be repulsed by her. I'm not saying she can't get a book deal, and she will sell to the book to some people, but to assume that she'll make millions is incorrect IMO. She's not famous like OJ was before his trials, and she doesn't have a large hue and cry of "Innocent" from the public to fall back upon. Casey just lack that "likeability" factor that helps sell books.

Harry Truman used to say that America always sees through hypocrites, and America has already seen through Casey Anthony.

OlieRow
07-05-2011, 09:54 PM
Okay, so I admit I haven't followed the trial as closely as many of you, but I do have to ask: What makes some of you so sure that Ms. Anthony murdered her daughter?

I didn't follow it all that closely so I don't know every detail of evidence, but what really makes me think she's guilty of at least manslaughter/neglect/child abuse is the fact that her daughter was missing for a month and she didn't seem all that concerned, told all sorts of lies, and seemed to be having a grand old time. She knew her daughter was dead and didn't seem all that upset. Yes, she had an f'd up dysfunctional family, but I don't buy that it was some kind of defense mechanism. If it really was a pool accident, I think she would've called 9-1-1 like any normal person would. Unfortunately, pool accidents happen and I'd imagine being from south Florida (where they're bound to happen more often than other places) she would know that they don't typically come with murder charges.

As far as actual evidence, the duct tape was from the home and I don't see Cindy or George (or Lee) having any motive. I also don't believe Cindy's testimony about the computer searches. I think that was all Casey and Cindy was trying to keep her daughter alive.

I know there were holes in the prosecution's case and I imagine that's why she was found not guilty, but I think she's responsible for the death even if it wasn't premeditated/1st degree murder. The defense raised enough reasonable doubt to get her acquitted, but I don't believe that their theory is what happened. IMO, she drugged Casey with chloroform instead of getting a sitter and she mis-dosed it, causing the death. The defense couldn't use that as a defense theory given that it would make Casey responsible for the accident.

KHenry14
07-05-2011, 09:55 PM
Legally, if Casey admits killing Caylee now, she is exempt from all further prosecution, correct? While she may not outright admit it, I can see her slipping up enough on the facts that would get one to the same place.

Just the same as if OJ admitted to killing Ron and Nicole, nothing would happen. She's a free as can be. But much like OJ, I don't think we've seen or heard the last of Casey Anthony.

skatingfan5
07-05-2011, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the definition, skatingfan5. This just confuses me further:
And what is "moral certainty"?
moral certainty n. in a criminal trial, the reasonable belief (but falling short of absolute certainty) of the trier of the fact (jury or judge sitting without a jury) that the evidence shows the defendant is guilty. Moral certainty is another way of saying: "beyond a reasonable doubt." Since there is no exact measure of certainty it is always somewhat subjective and based on "reasonable" opinions of judge and/or jury. Source is this (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/moral+certainty). The definitions do seem a bit circular, and they admit that it is always somewhat subjective, since what is viewed as "reasonable" will differ from person to person.

skatemommy
07-05-2011, 09:58 PM
The pictures of her partying while her supposed nanny took off with the child are really disturbing.

Anita18
07-05-2011, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the definition, skatingfan5. This just confuses me further:

And what is "moral certainty"?
I would imagine that's what the juror feels is right or wrong, and if they'd be able to sleep at night with their decision, that sort of thing.

I'm not sure if there can really be a legal definition of reasonable doubt that they can apply specifically. That's why we have a jury system. Otherwise, why wouldn't we simply have the two sides present evidence to a judge who would know and apply the proper legal definition of "reasonable doubt" correctly rather than 12 people off the street who wouldn't know it as well?

tarotx
07-05-2011, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the definition, skatingfan5. This just confuses me further:


And what is "moral certainty"?I don't know the legal definition but when I took juror classes I was told that a moral certainty means that you truly believe the evidence points to no other probable truth then the guilt of the accused.

I understand that some probably didn't think the daughter wasn't murdered and so that threw a monkey wrench in believing that the mother murdered the child.

She surely recklessly lead to her death though...3 or years in jail and she can have more children so more children lives are at stake. And Casey can change her name and no one will know that his shit is happening.

I know the jurors couldn't have and shouldn't have taken that into consideration but it still makes me really sad :(