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Sylvia
06-01-2011, 03:28 PM
Can we petition France to let Bonheur go?
He's 29 years old. I don't think he is a viable candidate for Yankowskas at this point (even if he happened to be available now).

(ETA: Yes, I do realize that PeterG was likely being facetious here. ;))

rhumba
06-01-2011, 04:55 PM
I see what you mean, but it's different when the coach and the skater are U.S citizens and have been receiving USFS money. Do you really think that USFS would want Dalilah Sappenfield, Frank Carroll, or any other top U.S. coach training top competitors to compete for other countries in the Olympics? It's simply not in the best interest of USFS to encourage this. It is different when the competitor is a citizen of another country and has not received USFS money (e.g. Patrick Chan, Yu Na Kim). They can train with whatever U.S. coach they like and represent their own country. But for Yankowskas to train with Dalilah and represent France ... I don't think USFS would like that.

What about Marina coaching her son for Russia, and Tessa/Scott for Canada? I'm sure she got money from USFS to coach US top teams. I don't think USFS can say much what coaches do.

Garden Kitty
06-01-2011, 05:26 PM
I see what you mean, but it's different when the coach and the skater are U.S citizens and have been receiving USFS money. Do you really think that USFS would want Dalilah Sappenfield, Frank Carroll, or any other top U.S. coach training top competitors to compete for other countries in the Olympics?

Frank coached Carolina Kostner and Denis Ten, and I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment. Robin Wagner coached Sylvia Fontana and Elene Gedevanishvilli and S&Z coach at least 70% of all competitive ice dance teams ;)

kirkbiggestfan
06-01-2011, 05:27 PM
Can we petition France to let Bonheur go?

We all hope that Caitlin finds her Trankov..her "Bonheur". The French fed is putting its money on James-Cipres and could not care less about Bonheur at this point.

VIETgrlTerifa
06-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Frank coached Carolina Kostner and Denis Ten, and I'm sure there are others I'm not recalling at the moment. Robin Wagner coached Sylvia Fontana and Elene Gedevanishvilli and S&Z coach at least 70% of all competitive ice dance teams ;)

Not to mention Audrey weisiger coached Yoshi Onda in 2004-2005 and Miki Ando was coached by Carol Heiss Jenkins. Ando was definitely a medal threat in Torino even if she didn't end up skating well.

5Ali3
06-01-2011, 05:58 PM
I see what you mean, but it's different when the coach and the skater are U.S citizens and have been receiving USFS money. Do you really think that USFS would want Dalilah Sappenfield, Frank Carroll, or any other top U.S. coach training top competitors to compete for other countries in the Olympics? It's simply not in the best interest of USFS to encourage this.

There are a couple of different concerns wrapped up here, I think. To try to separate them:
- U.S. Figure Skating doesn't fund coaches directly; they fund skaters. The association also doesn't "prohibit" U.S. coaches from coaching skaters who represent other countries, even foreign skaters who are competitors for top-10 placements at Worlds against U.S. skaters. The most obvious current example is Shpilband and Virtue/Moir/Davis/White, along with Shpilband's other 99 teams, 82 of whom represent other countries, including 81 that consist of a girl who competed at U.S. nationals and a foreign boy. (Note: numbers may be an approximation. :scream:) Another example that springs to mind is Carroll/Nagasu/Koster. Looking at the last 10-15 years, there are many other examples of top U.S. coaches who coach skaters from other countries, including skaters who could medal at Worlds down to the bottom tier internationally.

- I think I might agree, in a very literal way, that it isn't in the best interest of U.S. Figure Skating to encourage a U.S. coach to take on a foreign skater/skaters (once again, I'm thinking of the Spilband/V&M/D&W trio), but I can't see how U.S. Figure Skating could "encourage" that sort of situation; the association simply doesn't have that kind of control over the coaches. At this point, the only control that they have over coaches is to require coaches who want credentials at qualifying competitions to be members of the association as well as PSA, to perform background checks that prohibit individuals convicted of sex crimes from receiving said credentials (on a case-by-case basis), and to ban individuals who have violated the U.S. Figure Code of Ethics, which prohibits coaches from having sexual relationships with under-age skaters and prohibits skaters from hiring someone to bash his/her competitor in the knee with a crowbar. Yes, USFS wields a few sticks, but they don't offer coaches any carrots, and there's simply no mechanism to "encourage" or "punish" coaches from taking on certain skaters.

- There have been some high-level skaters who had received significant amounts of funding from U.S. Figure Skating during their careers who were not given releases by the Board of Directors to skate for other countries. This information is public knowledge, I believe, published in reports of the BoD on the website. Most of those skaters had medaled at U.S. Nationals at the junior level or higher and often placed quite high at Junior Worlds; they tended to have been supported by U.S. Figure Skating for years. Many, many other skaters have been released: typically, skaters who had not placed high enough at U.S. Nationals to receive large amounts of funding. Four years ago, when Yankowskas and Cohen split after winning the U.S. Novice silver medal, Yankowskas had not received much/any* funding from U.S. Figure Skating; I'm not sure that she would even have required a release, actually, although I can't remember what the rules for releases were four years ago. (I also can't remember whether I put my wet laundry into the dryer last night. :shuffle:)

* I believe that the "developmental team envelope" still existed in 2006-2007, which gave small grants to the medalists at U.S. Junior Nationals (Y&C placed third in Intermediate Pairs in 2006); I believe pair teams were given $1,500 to split between them. I may be wrong either about the existence of this envelope in 2006-2007 or about the amount of the money; either way, my point is that if Yankowskas had received any U.S. Figure Skating by February 2007, it was peanuts compared to the funding that Morgan Matthews had received by 2007, when she was not released by the BoD of U.S. Figure Skating.

- Citizenship would/would have been an issue, today or four years ago; it's unusual for a male partner to move to the U.S. and attempt to receive citizenship for the purposes of representing the U.S. in the Olympics, simply because a) U.S. citizenship is difficult to obtain and tends to be a lengthy process, even for high-level athletes (yes, we've seen some exceptions to that) b) it tends to be harder to make the U.S. Olympic team than almost any other country. Most of the examples that come to mind of male partners who attempted to obtain/obtained U.S. citizenship are former Soviet/Russian skaters, almost all of whom moved to the U.S. for reasons other than skating (and of the ones who moved for skating, most ended up being romantically involved with the partner with whom they competed internationally, except for one who became romantically involved with a coach). The only non-Soviet/Russian example that I can think of is Matthew Gates; I don't know how old he was when he moved or his motivations for moving to the U.S. There may be other examples - I'm distracted by wondering if my socks are molding in the washer :rofl:. (Also, there are many things that I don't know, so even if I knew my socks were safe and sound, I couldn't create a comprehensive list anyway.)

julieann
06-01-2011, 07:02 PM
The French fed is putting its money on James-Cipres and could not care less about Bonheur at this point.

There is a reason for that, he isn't very good.

madm
06-02-2011, 01:18 AM
I think I might agree, in a very literal way, that it isn't in the best interest of U.S. Figure Skating to encourage a U.S. coach to take on a foreign skater/skaters (once again, I'm thinking of the Spilband/V&M/D&W trio), but I can't see how U.S. Figure Skating could "encourage" that sort of situation; the association simply doesn't have that kind of control over the coaches.
- There have been some high-level skaters who had received significant amounts of funding from U.S. Figure Skating during their careers who were not given releases by the Board of Directors to skate for other countries.
- Citizenship would/would have been an issue, today or four years ago; it's unusual for a male partner to move to the U.S. and attempt to receive citizenship for the purposes of representing the U.S. in the Olympics, simply because a) U.S. citizenship is difficult to obtain and tends to be a lengthy process, even for high-level athletes (yes, we've seen some exceptions to that) b) it tends to be harder to make the U.S. Olympic team than almost any other country.

Many of the skaters and coaches mentioned in this thread are foreign-born citizens of another country, who have a history of competing for those countries. They have just chosen to live and train in the U.S. In the case of U.S.-born pair and dance skaters, USFS definitely wants them to team up with a U.S. citizen if possible, or someone who could become one, and represent the U.S. in competition. They do not want to see their talent pool emigrating to other countries. USFS will use whatever means it has to discourage its skaters from looking outside the U.S. for partners. That usually means refusing to release elite skaters to skate for another country. I believe Yankowskas is stuck looking for a U.S. citizen to skate with, at least in the near term.

In many other countries it is also difficult to get citizenship, so the U.S. is not the only one with a long and difficult process. And in some countries like Japan, you cannot have dual citizenship so you have to choose it exclusively (that's why Kavaguti gave it up to become Russian). As you mentioned, the citizenship of a coach is not important re: eligibility of skaters to compete for a country.

AFAIK Zoueva and Shpilband both competed in ice dancing for Russia and have U.S. citizenship. I believe they defected from Russia 20 years ago. I think Zoueva may also have competed for Canada, so it makes sense for her to coach Canadian skaters.

Debbie S
06-02-2011, 01:55 AM
AFAIK Zoueva and Shpilband both competed in ice dancing for Russia and have U.S. citizenship. I believe they defected from Russia 20 years ago. I think Zoueva may also have competed for Canada, so it makes sense for her to coach Canadian skaters.AFAIK, Zoueva never "competed" for Canada. I believe she moved there from Russia about 20 years ago (not sure if it was considered defecting) and became a Canadian citizen - not sure if she has U.S. citizenship. Shpilband defected to the U.S. while here with a skating tour and at some point became a U.S. citizen.

MacMadame
06-02-2011, 02:01 AM
USFS will use whatever means it has to discourage its skaters from looking outside the U.S. for partners. That usually means refusing to release elite skaters to skate for another country.

In fact, that's pretty much the only means they have. And it only works for skaters who need releases and that means the skater has to have competed for the US internationally.

It's unclear if USFS would refuse to release Yankowskas. It's true she is a US Nationals champion but her career and the amount of money she's gotten from USFS is nowhere near Matthews who was a Jr. World champion and got Team Envelop money for years. I would consider her to be on the bubble where they might fight it or they might shrug their shoulders and wish her well with her new non-US partner.

But it's all theoretical at this point as she hasn't teamed up with someone without US citizenship nor is it time for her to start looking outside the US.

geoskate
06-02-2011, 02:37 AM
Why would she want or need to be released? She's a strong enough skater that if she can find a partner of equivalent strength she would do very well competing for the U.S. Even if a new partner was foreign, it would make much more sense for them to compete for the U.S.

I can't think of many potential partners of equivalent strength from countries where there would be difficulty in getting a release for the male partner. Certainly there are several in Russia, but IMO a partnership with a Russian skater is never going to happen (because of the Russian federation).

sk9tingfan
06-04-2011, 06:10 PM
:P
Her Twitter name - http://twitter.com/#!/CaitsYankowskas

blue_idealist
06-05-2011, 05:55 AM
I noticed it says on her twitter that she is packing again with a smiley. This is from eight hours ago. I wonder why she is packing. I hope it's because she found a new partner, dare I hope? lol

TheIronLady
06-05-2011, 07:00 AM
And if they had trained in the U.S., USFS would have frowned upon (and perhaps prohibited) a U.S. coach teaching someone representing a different country.

What has the track record of the USFSA been like with releasing skaters (and American coaches)? Have there been heavy handed interventions?

olympic
06-05-2011, 02:21 PM
I noticed it says on her twitter that she is packing again with a smiley. This is from eight hours ago. I wonder why she is packing. I hope it's because she found a new partner, dare I hope? lol

...and an exclamation point :)

Ashley Wagner packing....Caitlin packing..... :watch: