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milanessa
02-07-2012, 05:40 AM
Silly. And I'm directing that at the parents.

my little pony
02-07-2012, 06:02 AM
Not Target salespeople? :lol:

i havent been there but it is probably also applicable

MacMadame
02-07-2012, 07:19 AM
i havent been there but it is probably also applicable

Their red polo shirts and khaki pants/skirts haunt my dreams. ;)

Anita18
02-07-2012, 07:10 PM
Well, rule number one is that they certainly must not like it.

One of my friends grew up in a very patriarchal home where her mother "submitted" to her father. She is determined not to ever have that kind of relationship in her marriage. Her husband grew up in a similar, though less iron clad, family. In their determination to have an equal marriage, they have created a matriarchy in place of a patriarchy. Her husband answers to her. And he has to do all the cooking and cleaning. She works from home on a very part time basis. In the summer, when their kids are home all day, her husband has to leave lunch for her and them and the kids have to reheat it. Because even doing that much cooking would, in my friend's view, make her a submissive wife in an unequal marriage.

And this silliness, I think, is what happens when we get caught up in defining gender roles at all. If they could let go of the notions of gender roles and do what makes sense instead, she could reheat the food.

And she and a few of her friends give me neverending hell for not only cooking, but for liking to do it.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Sounds like someone is trying too hard.

PDilemma
02-07-2012, 07:18 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Sounds like someone is trying too hard.

That is exactly what's going on.

It's why I think getting preoccupied with gender roles in either respect, whether you want to maintain some "traditional" roles or avoid the same, is problematic.

Do what makes sense. I love to cook. So I cook. My husband actually likes to clean, so he does all the cleaning except the kitchen. We both hate laundry. I'm home the most right now, so I do it. When I go back to work, he'll be home more due to his shifts and very well may do it. Because we do what makes sense.

Dragonlady
02-07-2012, 08:38 PM
In the GTA there is a movement on the part of some Catholic schools to ban the plaid kilt skirts because the "naughty schoolgirl" stereotype is the girl in the white shirt, navy tie, and short plaid skirt.

Watching groups of girls headed off to school is interesting. Some of the girls' skirts are almost to their knees, and on others, the skirt barely covers their butts. I would think the sane solution would be to institute a minimum acceptable length for the skirts.

PrincessLeppard
02-07-2012, 08:46 PM
There is a minimum acceptable length. But the second they are out of school (or before school), some girls roll the waistband until the skirt is, erm, more interesting. ;)

PDilemma
02-07-2012, 09:03 PM
Watching groups of girls headed off to school is interesting. Some of the girls' skirts are almost to their knees, and on others, the skirt barely covers their butts. I would think the sane solution would be to institute a minimum acceptable length for the skirts.

There was a minimum required length where I worked. As PL said, they roll the waist bands up. And it is extremely awkward for staff to check for that. And often, a female teacher could say "hey, go fix your skirt" and they would do it and roll it again before the next class where a male teacher is not going to say anything because doing so gets him accused of inappropriately looking at the girls. I can really see why a school might want to just remove them from the uniform.

Japanfan
02-07-2012, 09:39 PM
One of my friends grew up in a very patriarchal home where her mother "submitted" to her father. She is determined not to ever have that kind of relationship in her marriage. Her husband grew up in a similar, though less iron clad, family. In their determination to have an equal marriage, they have created a matriarchy in place of a patriarchy. Her husband answers to her. And he has to do all the cooking and cleaning. She works from home on a very part time basis. In the summer, when their kids are home all day, her husband has to leave lunch for her and them and the kids have to reheat it. Because even doing that much cooking would, in my friend's view, make her a submissive wife in an unequal marriage.

And this silliness, I think, is what happens when we get caught up in defining gender roles at all.


While I think an equal marriage would have been far more desirable, it's interesting you call this "silliness". Because when a man is charge and a woman is submissive, it's just normal - never silly.

So you're caught up in gender roles in your reaction.

The switch is interesting, in any rate, from the POV of what the couples' experience is of their switched roles and what they learned from it.

MacMadame
02-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Good point, Japanfan. Though I suspect that same poster might think that the opposite, where the man is in charge to be silly too. Or at least sub-optimal.

oleada
02-08-2012, 12:48 AM
In the GTA there is a movement on the part of some Catholic schools to ban the plaid kilt skirts because the "naughty schoolgirl" stereotype is the girl in the white shirt, navy tie, and short plaid skirt.

Watching groups of girls headed off to school is interesting. Some of the girls' skirts are almost to their knees, and on others, the skirt barely covers their butts. I would think the sane solution would be to institute a minimum acceptable length for the skirts.

As long as there has been Catholic school, there has been a minimum skirt length and people trying to get away with much shorter.

I know. I was one of them ;)

mag
02-08-2012, 01:40 AM
As long as there has been Catholic school, there has been a minimum skirt length and people trying to get away with much shorter.

I know. I was one of them ;)

I don't think it is only Catholic schools. Even in our public schools, which have very lax dress codes, the kids are still pushing the limits. Tank tops must have straps at least 2 fingers wide .... there must be some pretty tiny fingers out there.

LilJen
02-08-2012, 02:07 AM
I think it's the isolation, at least judging from my two friends who tried it. They didn't make it very long...

Not just the isolation. For me it was also the "you're a mom and ONLY a mom and everything else you were or are no longer exists" mentality. It didn't matter that I'd had all kinds of experiences or was trained to do this or had worked doing that--all of a sudden it was all mom mom mom mom. Everything I did from that point onward was expected to be related to being a mom. I really hated that suddenly the rest of who I was was suddenly deemed completely unimportant and irrelevant. The obliteration of self, if you will.

MacMadame
02-08-2012, 02:31 AM
As long as there has been Catholic school, there has been a minimum skirt length and people trying to get away with much shorter.

I know. I was one of them ;)
Yeah, my mom tells me stories... and her case it was poverty that gave her short skirts so being scolded by the nuns just made it worse.

PDilemma
02-08-2012, 02:35 AM
Good point, Japanfan. Though I suspect that same poster might think that the opposite, where the man is in charge to be silly too. Or at least sub-optimal.

Yeah...I already commented on that. And I didn't even come close to declaring that patriarchy is good.

I really enjoy people not reading the whole thread then taking someone to task. :rolleyes: