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Aussie Willy
05-25-2011, 05:59 AM
If you believe there is no God, natural force or anything spiritual, that's still a belief.

But if you come from a view that there is no God, how can that be a belief? You are just starting from a neutral position.

agalisgv
05-25-2011, 06:04 AM
But if you come from a view that there is no God, how can that be a belief? You are just starting from a neutral position.A view(point) is a belief. Just because it appears neutral to you doesn't make it so to others.

And all beliefs/views have investment in something--that's their nature. But it also means there can be no truly neutral belief.

Vagabond
05-25-2011, 06:17 AM
The entire Bible is silly and is so wrong why should I believe any of it?

Would you care to explain why you say it is "silly" and "so wrong"?

Even people who don't believe in God, let alone that the events described in it actually happened, can respect it as a heterogeneous collection of moral, poetic, and transcendental writings that have been studied and interpreted for millenia and can be studied and interpreted afresh in every generation.

suep1963
05-25-2011, 06:26 AM
Brian, I think what I find insulting is your seeming delight in ruffling feathers. If you choose not to believe, that is your choice. To air an opinion in the voice of a young child thrilled with pushing buttons is another thing. That is called "thumbing your nose", not a discussion of ideas/opinions. There are many people who post on this board with a broad spectrum of beliefs/nonbeliefs, and for the most part, people seem to be able to engage in some interesting discussion about this.

I see no purpose to insult any fellow poster by implying that what they believe (or not) is silly and stupid--there are other words you can use. Then to crow about it afterwards is simply immature. Or perhaps that is your reason to post like that in the first place?

BigB08822
05-25-2011, 06:38 AM
If you can't separate a person from a book then what can I say to you? I said THE BIBLE was silly and wrong. By the way, to clarify, I meant wrong as in incorrect not as in morally reprehensible. I never said anything about any person who chooses to believe in what it says. Those words were put in my mouth. I enjoy engaging in discussion about such things but Dragonlady is not worth my time, I apparently upset her long ago. I made my statement about the bible only and she came in here and rudely brought it to the forefront. I fail to see how I am the one ruffling feathers. I can say anything I want about a book, even if it is the oh so holy bible.

Ozzisk8tr
05-25-2011, 06:45 AM
I'm sure this has been bought up before, and maybe it needs it own thread as I'm sure it will get a lot of reaction both positive and negative. This just confirmed for me my thoughts about religion. Watch the first 5 minutes and you'll watch the whole thing. It's amazing. Id be very keen to hear other opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0

BigB08822
05-25-2011, 06:46 AM
That movie is incredible. I watched it a while back but might watch again tonight. You do have to get past those first 5 minutes, though.

KikiSashaFan
05-25-2011, 06:53 AM
But if you come from a view that there is no God, how can that be a belief? You are just starting from a neutral position.

I believe the universe started through a chain of scientific events. I believe the earth and other planets will someday cease to exist because of another chain of scientific events. Since that is what I do believe, I would consider those positive beliefs. I don't believe in Jesus or God. I don't believe in the bible. I would consider those negative beliefs. All of that is of course just my personal opinion, but they don't cancel each other out make me neutral.

agalisgv
05-25-2011, 07:16 AM
I'm sure this has been bought up before, and maybe it needs it own thread as I'm sure it will get a lot of reaction both positive and negative. This just confirmed for me my thoughts about religion. Watch the first 5 minutes and you'll watch the whole thing. It's amazing. Id be very keen to hear other opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0It makes the Bible read like a scientific journal :shuffle:

Seriously, that has to be one of the most fact-free productions I've ever witnessed. I would put it on par with L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics.

You're free to believe in it though...

AliasJohnDoe
05-25-2011, 07:24 AM
I'm sure this has been bought up before, and maybe it needs it own thread as I'm sure it will get a lot of reaction both positive and negative. This just confirmed for me my thoughts about religion. Watch the first 5 minutes and you'll watch the whole thing. It's amazing. Id be very keen to hear other opinions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0

Thank you for posting this. I've watched it many times before.

I actually send this to people/relatives/friends who send me religious e-mails. ;)

Vagabond
05-25-2011, 07:47 AM
I said THE BIBLE was silly and wrong. By the way, to clarify, I meant wrong as in incorrect not as in morally reprehensible.

Considering that the Bible begins with two directly contradictory creation stories, I don't think the people who compiled it meant it to be taken literally. :shuffle:

BigB08822
05-25-2011, 07:52 AM
Considering that the Bible begins with two directly contradictory creation stories, I don't think the people who compiled it meant it to be taken literally. :shuffle:

Oh please. Yet I can't get married because the Bible says I am an abomination. When it suits them they take it VERY literally.

Ozzisk8tr
05-25-2011, 08:07 AM
Oh please. Yet I can't get married because the Bible says I am an abomination. When it suits them they take it VERY literally.

What BigBO said.

Anita18
05-25-2011, 09:45 AM
Yeah, even though it's billions of years away, it makes me sad. However, by then humans would have figured out they need to move.
It'll be billions of years in the future after our passing, so who knows. But even if humanity fails to escape earth before that fate, I think it is a beautiful thing that we were given the chance to be alive. :)

And that is my religion. :P

gkelly
05-25-2011, 12:23 PM
OK, here's what I believe regarding the bible:

I believe it is a collection of writings by human beings over the course of several centuries -- history, mysticism, prophesies, poetry, moral precepts, rules of conduct, etc. -- trying to make sense of the world and their place in it at the time.

I think most of the content served valuable purposes for the writers and their followers at the times that it was written. I think some of the moral wisdom/observations about human nature are still relevant in different contexts including the 21st century developed world. I think that, for those who are spiritually inclined, some of the more mystical or metaphorical content can be useful guides to meditation on the nature of the divine.

I also think it's unfortunate that some religious traditions have chosen to fetishize details that were meaningful in the time and place that they were written and to privilege those particular ancient writings over all the other developments human knowledge and understanding in other parts of the world and in the intervening centuries.

I think it's unfortunate that accounts of resistances to secular power in specific ancient times and places have been used as justifications to impose secular power, often by force, in subsequent eras.


Obviously people who believe that every word of the bible is the word of God will disagree with me, and vice versa.