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View Full Version : Denney, Coughlin announce pairs partnership



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newbatgirl
05-19-2011, 03:19 AM
Am I the only one who didn't find Barrett very exciting as a skater? He never seemed to look like he wanted to be on the ice at all, least of all with Caydee. I'm sure he is a very nice man, maybe he's just not a naturally expressive person by nature. Anyway, I did not enjoy his part of the performances.

Coughlin, despite all the "truck driver" comments (why does that term get thrown around so much here?) was always more interesting to watch, IMO.

In terms of on-ice personality, John is probably a better match for Caydee than Jeremy was.

I hope Caitlin finds a partner soon and we get two pairs of skaters who can commit to one another for several seasons.

Proustable
05-19-2011, 04:24 AM
Agreed, aftershocks. I don't think top two at Nationals is a foregone conclusion (though if they don't get into the top four, I'll be VERY surprised), but there's definitely hope..

I'd love to figure out why the US success in dance hasn't been transfered over to pairs, as a side note.

vesperholly
05-19-2011, 04:31 AM
As a Mom of a young Figure Skater, it is so disturbing to read all these insensitive comments. Who are we to judge the path someone else should take. No one knows what he has gone through to choose this path nor does John owe anyone an explanation. It's his life and no one has the right to judge what he chooses to do with it. Shame on all of you for writing such derogatory comments to a boy who tragically lost his mother last year. As a mother I would want my child to be happy, because happiness in life is more important than skating. I'm so taken back by the awful comments towards these kids, that I question if this is the right sport for my child.

I think condemnation of unethical behavior is appropriate — life isn't all sunshine and roses. The issue here is that we don't yet know (and may never know) if the behavior is indeed ethical. But something smells rotten in the state of Denmark.

It's baffling to me because it clearly was not about the skating and results. Ending a partnership because of bad results, easily understandable. But more esoteric reasons are leading a lot of people to guess, and guess pessimistically.

olympic
05-19-2011, 04:38 AM
Do you think Barrett was a stronger skater overall, or just that he was a better match for Caydee?

I think the lifts, throws and triple twist will be more dynamic with a D/C pairing over D/B, just due to the fact that they will have more height. But, there's plenty of work that will need to be done overall. Ironically I see Jeremy and John have the same glaring weakness - lack of extension.

RD
05-19-2011, 04:43 AM
Sometimes I wonder if there's actually less drama involved then some people are trying to insert into the situation. Suppose this was something that was pre-determined even before Y/C hit their stride last season? Hopefully it went down like that and there are no hard feelings.

By not saying anything, the way the season turned out, it doesn't reflect well on Team Coughlin (or Team Denney for that matter)

Sylvia
05-19-2011, 04:53 AM
I'd love to figure out why the US success in dance hasn't been transfered over to pairs, as a side note.
There was an extensive "what's wrong with/how can we improve our pairs program?" discussion in the 2010-11 US Pairs thread in the Trash Can that touched on this topic. Here are 2 of the posts (starting from page 17):

The USA dance program used to be just as weak as the pairs, and look where it is now. What's the difference there? We have (imported) a few amazing coaches who have developed training centers dedicated to ice dance, where teams can feed on each others' energy and stick together. I think for the pairs program to really go anywhere (in terms of winning World medals on a consistent basis), something similar is going to have to happen - a dedicated pairs training center, world-renowned coaches, and a couple of teams to train together and stick it out long-term, setting an example for the rest.

Yes, the challenge in the US has long been how to attract good, quality singles skaters (particularly males) who have the potential to become good pair skaters.

I think the key word here is "developed" -- Igor Shpilband, for example, came (actually, defected) in 1990 to the US and worked hard on his own initiative to build a dance program from the ground up. It took him many years to do so. Some coaches may be motivated primarily by money, but I think it takes special coaches who take pride in their work and have a long-range "vision" to develop young skaters successfully. Those are the types of coaches we need more of in order to make the pairs discipline more attractive in the US.
ETA from the same discussion:

I don't think a more centralized pairs training center would work wonders like it did for US ice dance anyway. It could help, but it wouldn't necessarily be a drastic help. Pairs is a whole different animal than ice dance... There are more question marks in pairs. Height difference alone makes pairs more complicated than dance... Average adult height is 5'4" for girls, 5'9" for boys... A pair of average height is plenty fine for dance, but borderline unworkable for pairs. Several top US dance teams paired up as young children and have stayed together for years. Pair teams can't really do that. It takes a lot more patience to find a suitable pair partner and wait for something to potentially work long-term.

Even a brilliant coach and his wonderful facility wouldn't make it much easier for the US to emulate their dance success. You want pair skaters to develop when they are young, yet it's a discipline that's not really made for young people. The guys need to be older so that they can develop enough strength, and the girls need to be older so that they aren't skating long-term with someone that's 10+ years older than them. In the meantime, these skaters (and their families) have to commit themselves to less than ideal pair situations and have a lot of patience, a lot more patience than the ice dance teams that pair up as pre-teens and climb from Juvenile to Senior without having to split.

I don't think any country can bring in some top coaches and expect to "dominate" pair skating. It's too challenging. China's pair program has three exceptional pair teams that they rode for several years, and a couple of their teams coming up might be of false age just to allow them to compete...Two of Russia's top pair girls are from different countries...Pairs is complicated. I do not see a realistic "solution" to our pair "problem". The two US pairs at Jr Worlds should be very proud of themselves, they did great. This is obviously a quality competition, and no country can expect to win or medal in it every year. I don't think we are "settling for mediocrity" as much as we're keeping expectations reasonable. We sent our best age-eligible pairs to Jr Worlds, and that's all I really care about.

OlieRow
05-19-2011, 04:55 AM
And the original breakup announcement that Y. was seeking a new partner but C. was evaluating his options, just seems so ingenuine, when it now is very clear he knew exactly what comes next, that I'm inclined to not like the new pair.

Evaluating options = waiting to see how their try out period goes?

dinakt
05-19-2011, 05:03 AM
Thank you, Sylvia, for pointing out the discussion. I'll go check it out.
But what immediately comes to mind is that your quotes above are just right. It takes a combination of dedicated coaches, long- term relationships ( usually, though not always- certainly in Dance V/T and D/W paired up very young) and some success from talented teams. Belbin- Agosto's success went a long, long way to make dance in the US seem like an attractive option. The depth in Dance in the US right now is wonderful.
If there is a US Pair team that can compete for the medals with the Russians/ Chinese/ Germans, they'll be an inspiration. Tradition and following an example count for a lot.

Mayra
05-19-2011, 05:21 AM
Am I the only one who didn't find Barrett very exciting as a skater? He never seemed to look like he wanted to be on the ice at all, least of all with Caydee. I'm sure he is a very nice man, maybe he's just not a naturally expressive person by nature. Anyway, I did not enjoy his part of the performances.

Coughlin, despite all the "truck driver" comments (why does that term get thrown around so much here?) was always more interesting to watch, IMO.

In terms of on-ice personality, John is probably a better match for Caydee than Jeremy was.


Caydee was most definitely the star of that team. She always had a huge smile on her face and that was a big part of the selling of the that team. They were all about excitement and perk. ;) John appears to be more expressive than Jeremy so it should help even out the partnership.

With the Moore-Towers/Moscovitch partnership(another team all about excitement and perk), it helps that Dylan is just as big a character as Kristen, if not more so. :lol: With D/B, it was one skater bringing the perk and the other skater on a completely different page which added to the disconnect between the two.

I also expect this team to be a better match not just in personality, but in pair elements as well. As Sylvia posted earlier in the thread, John has pretty solid technique in his lifts. He also appears to be built bigger than Jeremy and on paper looks to be a better fit for Denney than Jeremy was. I certainly expect to see a significant difference in Denney's lifts. In particular an improvement in transitions, positioning and speed in comparison to what she did with Barrett(ie very labored lifts :yikes:).

Mind you this isn't a knock on Jeremy who deserves a lot of credit for what D/B accomplished. ;) JMO

5Ali3
05-19-2011, 09:09 AM
Several of the "hypers" are indeed doing the work of USFSA (or other federations, or agents of skaters, etc.). I don't mean individual USFSA members who pay their dues and belong to skating clubs but proactive p.r. types. It's a common way of stakeholders to unofficially "police" popular forums (message boards) all over the internet.

U.S. Figure Skating has a reputation for being incredibly P.R.-challenged. I really, really, really doubt that there's an organized effort to covertly influence discussion on these boards in a particular direction. I would be simply astonished; the association isn't that clever, frankly. :shuffle:

Skittl1321
05-19-2011, 01:05 PM
Evaluating options = waiting to see how their try out period goes?

"Evaluating an option"?

Evaluating his options is generally skater code for trying to decide if you still want to skate anymore.

CynicElle
05-19-2011, 01:32 PM
U.S. Figure Skating has a reputation for being incredibly P.R.-challenged. I really, really, really doubt that there's an organized effort to covertly influence discussion on these boards in a particular direction. I would be simply astonished; the association isn't that clever, frankly. :shuffle:

And given that the posts in the other thread did nothing other than turn people against this team before they were even announced, if the USFSA is paying for people to do that, they need their money back.

leafygreens
05-19-2011, 02:23 PM
Looks like someone already edited Dalilah's Wikipedia page :lol:

As of now it still says "She has many different pairs teams now that she herself orchestrates pairs breakups."

lmao

Zemgirl
05-19-2011, 02:40 PM
As of now it still says "She has many different pairs teams now that she herself orchestrates pairs breakups."

lmao
It's been slightly revised, and now reads "She has coached many different pair teams, since she keeps breaking up her teams and importing new partners for them."

I don't imagine it'll stay that way for very long, though.

kwanette
05-19-2011, 04:21 PM
Sometimes I wonder if there's actually less drama involved then some people are trying to insert into the situation. Suppose this was something that was pre-determined even before Y/C hit their stride last season? Hopefully it went down like that and there are no hard feelings.

By not saying anything, the way the season turned out, it doesn't reflect well on Team Coughlin (or Team Denney for that matter)

I tend to agree with your first paragraph.