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View Full Version : Denney, Coughlin announce pairs partnership



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victoriaheidi
05-18-2011, 06:39 AM
I don't think their skating will give a very good explanation. It is hard to believe that John thought he was trading for a better skater.

I want to be happy and excited. I just feel like Caitlin got screwed out of pairs for no seemingly good reason...not to mention, I lost one of my favorite teams.

I just hope that, in a few months, Caitlin's skating with someone new. Then I'll probably feel better about D/C.

Mayra
05-18-2011, 07:03 AM
I don't know what Todd and Jenny's comments were when they broke up their teams they are the closest to a similar situation. maybe they did or didn't handle it well either. but if Coughlin came out with a statement of the reason - like I got paid more to do this, or I fell in love or whatever, that would put things on a better level than the "exploring my options" where the option apparently had been exlored and decided weeks ago.

John was pretty much between a rock and a hard place. IMO If he said it was because of $$ then he'd come across as a greedy SOB. If it was because of love, then he's a sucker but it's understandable. ;)If the reason was because he couldn't stand Caitlin or her mother for another season then saying so would have made him look like a douche.

I do agree that "exploring my options" comes across as disingenuous because it's fairly obvious this partnership was set up before worlds. I can't believe their PR team in CO or someone in the USFA couldn't just come up with some diplomatic drivel about irreconcilable differences and wanting different things out of the partnership, with both wishing each other luck with future partnerships etc. Instead it's thank you to the team for a great season, with Caitlin saying she supports John unconditionally and Dalilah wishing everyone luck. And you split why?! :duh:

victoriaheidi
05-18-2011, 07:19 AM
I do agree that "exploring my options" comes across as disingenuous because it's fairly obvious this partnership was set up before worlds. I can't believe their PR team in CO or someone in the USFA couldn't just come up with some diplomatic drivel about irreconcilable differences and wanting different things out of the partnership, with both wishing each other luck with future partnerships etc. Instead it's thank you to the team for a great season, with Caitlin saying she supports John unconditionally and Dalilah wishing everyone luck. And you split why?! :duh:

Yeah. Seriously, there are people who get paid to make USFS look good-couldn't those people have concocted some stories that sounded pretty?

IceJunkie
05-18-2011, 07:38 AM
At worlds when I was watching Coughlin/Yankowskas, I predicted that they were going to make the worlds podium in the future. They were the first U.S. pair in YEARS that I could actually *stand* to watch and not want to shake my head or fall asleep. Not only that but they were engaging and beautiful to watch. They had chemistry and the technical goods.

Well, then of course it ended.

We may never know what went down. What I do know is that what I saw from them this year was RARE and probably won't see it again from a U.S. pair for a long time. I just hope that John (I say him because it was clear he was the one that wanted out for whatever reason) knows just how good they were and what potential he was giving up, and hope for him in the end it was worth it.

Zemgirl
05-18-2011, 08:14 AM
Now you're speaking my language. Jason Werth left the Phillies last year to play for the Nationals because his agent got him a ridiculously lucrative contract. Guess he decided that the cash looked better in his hand than another World Series ring would look on his finger.
I actually thought of using Werth as an example, but decided that comparing Caydee to the Nats would be a bit too much. :D

aftershocks
05-18-2011, 08:37 AM
Hot topic :watch:

Welcome, rocket. I enjoyed reading your post. This entire thread is interesting in terms of the varying opinions. I find myself kind of a neutral observer. I don’t know as much about this as some posters. But I do have some thoughts.

I hadn’t followed Y/C very much and was surprised to see them suddenly doing so well. I have enjoyed watching them this season and I was happy for their success, but E/L I’m more smitten with – and I hope Marley/ Brubaker stay together and continue to progress. Who knows the real deal behind what happened? Lots of people have strong opinions about the situation. Maybe there was a better way to handle the original break-up announcement. At this juncture, I feel that Caitlin deserves a partner who has better lines and the same stretch, flexibility and balletic approach that she has. A good partner is hard to find though. I wish her luck **fingers crossed** Perhaps Caydee and John are more suited in their athletic approach. However, the Facebook poster’s comment that Caydee and John are the strong team the U.S. needs to compete with the Chinese and the Russians is a bit off the mark – must compete with the German World championship team too! :P Also, in order to be more competitive, U.S. pairs needs teams that can combine athleticism with artistry, as well as being able to weather all the obstacles and ups-and-downs of a partnership, not to mention weathering the politics of the sport, and making a commitment to stay together. At this point, Evora and Ladwig are the veterans who have good athleticism and wonderful unison and spark, with great lifts – they just need to nail consistency on their jumps. It is a shame how E/L were unfairly marked behind pairs who performed poorly at the 2010 Olympics.

Regarding Meno & Sand splitting with their partners and coming together, that was a different time – before the viral Internet culture. As I recall, Sand/ Kuchiki had the most success of the pairings involved in those splits. In any case, Sand and Meno apparently connected on a deep emotional level, and in terms of their ideas and goals about skating. I also believe they thought a lot about it and maybe tried to break the news to their partners in as kind a way as possible. I think it was extremely hard for Kuchiki, but I don’t know all the details. Possibly, Todd and Jenni were looked at askance and unkind things were said about them at the time, just not as publicly as it gets today because of the Internet. In any case, despite Todd’s great success with Kuchiki, I think Todd and Jenni were made for each other. Ina/ Dunjgen break-up was slightly different as they’d achieved great success as a pair over a longer period prior to their break-up (which gossip indicated was reportedly due to one person’s unhappiness over not being the object of partner’s affections). ‘Nuff said about that. ;)

The Facebook comments at the end of the icenetwork article were also interesting and ran the gamut. Perhaps Tai had “no comment” because she has previously expressed her utter dismay at how U.S. pairs teams these days constantly break up/ play musical chairs with so few making a real effort to stay together for the long haul. Her podcast interview with manleywoman is a must listen. One of the reasons I admire Evora and Ladwig so much is because of their commitment to each other, their love of skating, and the sacrifices they have made to stay together and to make their partnership work. I am definitely rooting for Evora and Ladwig to win the U.S. pairs championship next year. It would be a crowning achievement for them.

Frau Muller
05-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I hope that they crack the top 5 at Nationals.

rfisher
05-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Someone seriously thinks the new pair will be competitive with the top 6 (6 mind you) Russian teams or S/S? Seriously? :rofl: That makes my day.

sk8ers
05-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Ick. What is with this weird age trend? Is there any way to reduce the creepy age differences?

:rolleyes: Probably not and it bugs me too!! New teams(coaches, skaters, parents) seem to want instant results--putting the guy with a pre-pubescent girl makes the lifts much easier . Now, girl hits puberty, grows, jumps get a little wonky and lo and behold, its time for a new partner. Tai has said it on her little posts at the end of break up announcements: US Pairs need to stick it out!

Yes, that may mean HARD WORK on all sides--girls have to work to stay fit/lean/trim and boys need to hit the weight room. IMHO.

In the D/C case, this is not the issue as they are already in the SR ranks. I like Caitlin with him soooooo much more but then again, no one in CO is asking right???:D

2sk8
05-18-2011, 02:04 PM
Ick. What is with this weird age trend? Is there any way to reduce the creepy age differences?

A little OT, but don't just blame the skaters/coaches - you have to back up to the whole problem with developing Pairs in the US. Skaters aren't generally encouraged to skate pairs at young ages (in fact, many are actively discouraged from it), guys' muscular development happens a bit later than girls reaching puberty - guy switches to pairs in late teens & it's much easier & less disruptive to overall skating to learn with a lighter girl (sorry, that's just reality & safety), then the switch happens after the guy has the lift techniques & can lift a slightly heavier girl. Just "hitting the gym" leads to bulked up guy, negatively imapcting jumps. Anyway, I'm over-simplifying, but you probably get the gist.

aftershocks
05-18-2011, 02:50 PM
Someone seriously thinks the new pair will be competitive with the top 6 (6 mind you) Russian teams or S/S? Seriously? :rofl: That makes my day.

Yeah, I guess maybe its wishful thinking on the part of D/C's close friends and family? Surely, USFS isn't thinking that D/C will be strong enough to compete with the Russians, the Chinese, S/S, or the Canadians, not even in a few years. If they do think that, maybe someone should point out to them that it was likely Caitlin's gorgeous lines and aesthetic qualities that mainly caught the eyes of the judges and helped land Y/C in 6th place at Worlds.

I think that may be partly why so many posters are upset -- they loved Caitlin's look and felt John was a good partner who had the potential to improve his lines. I wasn't that invested in Y/C, but it was nice to see a U.S. pair placing well internationally.

What's done is done, and John and Caydee may turn out to be well-matched in their athletic approach, but in order to be competitive internationally, they will need to work a whole lot on developing artistry and presentation skills. It will be interesting to see how they progress.


:rolleyes: Probably not and it bugs me too!! New teams(coaches, skaters, parents) seem to want instant results--putting the guy with a pre-pubescent girl makes the lifts much easier . Now, girl hits puberty, grows, jumps get a little wonky and lo and behold, its time for a new partner. Tai has said it on her little posts at the end of break up announcements: US Pairs need to stick it out!

Yes, that may mean HARD WORK on all sides--girls have to work to stay fit/lean/trim and boys need to hit the weight room. IMHO.

In the D/C case, this is not the issue as they are already in the SR ranks. I like Caitlin with him soooooo much more but then again, no one in CO is asking right???:D

Yeah, Tai knows, and so does Randy. There are no instant results. It wasn't that easy for them when Tai grew taller and filled out more. Randy did have to start lifting weights to get stronger. The path to their winning the 1979 World championships had many ups and downs, as Tai discusses in her podcast interview with manleywoman. However, Tai and Randy were both hungry to win, and stuck with it together with their coach, John Nicks, to overcome the obstacles they faced. Even the heartache they experienced at 1980 Olympics did not break up Tai and Randy. They have a strong bond to this day. Required reading for U.S. pairs should be Tai and Randy's book with Martha Lowder Kimball, Forever Two As One.

Proustable
05-18-2011, 03:24 PM
Do people really not think that D/C can be competitive with Moore-Towers/Moscovitch? Or Duhamel/Radford? That's surprising.

The top five seem to be out of reach right now, but the next group are tightly clustered together.

oleada
05-18-2011, 03:55 PM
I see D/C as an American version of Moore-Towers and Moskovitch, only quite possibly even worse :scream: :yikes:

But Y/C were far better than them, so in terms of potential...this is not good.

BlueRidge
05-18-2011, 04:04 PM
While people are speculating, what would people say regarding Denney & Barrett vs Denney & Coughlin? I don't see Coughlin as anywhere near as good a match for Denney as Barrett was.

Sylvia
05-18-2011, 04:07 PM
IMO, one of John Coughlin's biggest strengths are his lifts and footwork in the lifts -- he has solid technique, not just brute strength. He's very secure and perhaps, hopefully, Caydee Denney can improve her positions in the lifts as a result.