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barbk
04-30-2012, 05:19 AM
Thanks, kwanfan. I forgot there was a difference between comeback status and split partner status.

Polymer Bob
04-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Status of U.S. pairs? Like most Americans, I was a little dissappointed with our performance at Worlds and World Team trophy. I am hoping we can step up our game next season.

carriemarie
04-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Status of U.S. pairs? Like most Americans, I was a little dissappointed with our performance at Worlds and World Team trophy. I am hoping we can step up our game next season.

Actually the American teams skated two of the more "put together" sets of programs of the event. As per usual their placement was not really a representation of the actual performance.

Sylvia
04-30-2012, 04:39 PM
I guess I'm not one of those "most Americans" because I thought D/C and M/B skated pretty much up to their potential at Worlds and D/C skated a clean FS and scored the highest TES among the 6 teams at WTT.

Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir and Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff performed in a benefit show yesterday afternoon in Monsey, New York - some photo links are posted here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3559273#post3559273

The ISU World Standings have been updated for the new season and the U.S. pairs are now ranked as follows (split teams omitted):
16 Denney/Coughlin
18 Marley/Brubaker
32 Castelli/Shnapir
35 Simpson/Blackmer
37 Duarte/Grafton
41 Denney/Frazier
49 Calalang/Sidhu
53 Vise/Baldwin
72 Aaron/Settlage
77 Oltmanns/Santillan
78 Donlan/Speroff

Sparks
04-30-2012, 05:11 PM
Status of U.S. pairs? Like most Americans, I was a little dissappointed with our performance at Worlds and World Team trophy. I am hoping we can step up our game next season.

I totally disagree. D/C had the cleanest season - with only one fall in their SP at Nationals. This was their first season together. M/B have demonstrated great improvement considering this as their second season together and Marley has been fearless in learning pairs skills.

kwanette
04-30-2012, 05:17 PM
I totally disagree. D/C had the cleanest season - with only one fall in their SP at Nationals. This was their first season together. M/B have demonstrated great improvement considering this as their second season together and Marley has been fearless in learning pairs skills.


Totally agree. Just what we were talking about yesterday.

haribobo
04-30-2012, 05:23 PM
Status of U.S. pairs? Like most Americans, I was a little dissappointed with our performance at Worlds and World Team trophy. I am hoping we can step up our game next season.

:rolleyes: 1) Get over youself and 2) Let's see you skate better. Our teams did great at Worlds and WTT, far exceeding what most other teams could do in their 1st or 2nd season together.

Sparks
04-30-2012, 05:29 PM
Totally agree. Just what we were talking about yesterday.
I knew I heard it before. :rofl:

Polymer Bob
04-30-2012, 05:53 PM
:rolleyes: 1) Get over youself and 2) Let's see you skate better. Our teams did great at Worlds and WTT, far exceeding what most other teams could do in their 1st or 2nd season together.

When you discuss a skater or team, how often does someone tell you "Let's see you skate better."?

Relax ... breathe in ..... breathe out .....

Yazmeen
04-30-2012, 07:17 PM
So what did you expect that they didn't come through with?

agalisgv
04-30-2012, 07:35 PM
I thought D/C and M/B skated pretty much up to their potential at Worlds and D/C skated a clean FS and scored the highest TES among the 6 teams at WTT. To me that's sorta the problem--they skated the best they can, yet even then their PCS are so far behind the top competitors. Even when D/C top out with TES, they still aren't near the podium because their component scores are just so low.

I don't think their placements are at odds with their performance--I think they have some clear deficiencies in their components and this creates a low ceiling as to what they can achieve internationally.

julieann
04-30-2012, 07:39 PM
To me that's sorta the problem--they skated the best they can, yet even then their PCS are so far behind the top competitors. Even when D/C top out with TES, they still aren't near the podium because their component scores are just so low.

I don't think their placements are at odds with their performance--I think they have some clear deficiencies in their components and this creates a low ceiling as to what they can achieve internationally.

I think D/C did great after their first year, the rest will come in time. I really think they are the most consistent pairs skating today. The PCS will come with time, they have much to build on, plenty more than other teams.

haribobo
04-30-2012, 09:49 PM
To me that's sorta the problem--they skated the best they can, yet even then their PCS are so far behind the top competitors. Even when D/C top out with TES, they still aren't near the podium because their component scores are just so low.

This is true, but I'd be surprised if this were not the case in their first season together. At this point D/C are far from my favorite pairs team, but what kind of stratospheric expectations did people really have for them this season that they aren't reaching? National title and 8th at Worlds, I'd say is pretty great. That said, I really hope for some more interesting musical choices and choreo next season. Not every new team can be like Scott/Fein with :kickass: and well executed choreo in their first season together. Likewise for M/B- skating at their first Worlds in only their 2nd season together, they did a mighty fine job. Add to the fact that all the teams above them have been around the scene for a while and would have a great PCS advantage because of that anyway...

There have been very few years over the last 10 that we could field 2 pairs teams to Worlds with even semi-consistent SBS triple jumps and throws. Let's celebrate that, and give these pairs a chance to improve year by year before expressing disappointment in their first year effort, which BTW put them both in the top 10.

Jessica
04-30-2012, 10:15 PM
This is true, but I'd be surprised if this were not the case in their first season together. At this point D/C are far from my favorite pairs team, but what kind of stratospheric expectations did people really have for them this season that they aren't reaching? National title and 8th at Worlds, I'd say is pretty great. That said, I really hope for some more interesting musical choices and choreo next season. Not every new team can be like Scott/Fein with :kickass: and well executed choreo in their first season together. Likewise for M/B- skating at their first Worlds in only their 2nd season together, they did a mighty fine job. Add to the fact that all the teams above them have been around the scene for a while and would have a great PCS advantage because of that anyway...

There have been very few years over the last 10 that we could field 2 pairs teams to Worlds with even semi-consistent SBS triple jumps and throws. Let's celebrate that, and give these pairs a chance to improve year by year before expressing disappointment in their first year effort, which BTW put them both in the top 10.

Wonderful analysis. As an American, I'm actually quite proud of both teams.

agalisgv
04-30-2012, 10:17 PM
what kind of stratospheric expectations did people really have for them this season that they aren't reaching? National title and 8th at Worlds, I'd say is pretty great. I think their placements this year were very strong--no question. And the lack of splats was really quite impressive.

My point wasn't that they should have placed higher and that was disappointing. Rather, in looking at their scores, there seem to be some built-in limitations. I know in another thread the point was made that skaters don't seem to see massive PCS improvements if the building blocks aren't already there by the time they reach seniors. And by building blocks, I mean grace, flow, edges, carriage, posture, etc. Speed can be learned, as can better choreo and musical interpretation. But the other factors don't generally change a whole lot once skaters are at the senior level.

So when I see a team winning on TES, but coming in the bottom three or worse in PCS, I tend to think there are some structural limitations to that team.

Course, some teams like Shen/Zhao made tremendous advancements, but I tend to think they are the exception to the rule.

jmho