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Sylvia
03-01-2012, 06:02 AM
LeDuc's video says February 2012. He last competed in singles qualifying at the 2010 Upper Great Lakes Regional (Oct. 2009) and placed 6th in Junior Men. I remember seeing him compete in Junior Men at Skate Detroit several years ago and being impressed. ETA: In his bio, he lists Matt Savoie as the skater he most admires. :)

Yukari Lepisto
03-01-2012, 10:07 AM
From some earlier posts, it sounded like Tim is having a tryout or had a tryout with Caitlin, is that not true?

olympic
03-01-2012, 12:39 PM
From some earlier posts, it sounded like Tim is having a tryout or had a tryout with Caitlin, is that not true?

I think it's speculation.

Someone in the Cain/Reagan split thread mentioned Caitlin and Josh are trying out ... But, can't confirm the source.

Skittl1321
03-01-2012, 01:42 PM
WOW. He is really good! He is looking for a partner? He looks like he's a great singles skater!!! How old is he and where does he live?

He is 22, I think. He is from Iowa, but moved to Indiana for his last partnership- I don't know him well enough to know if Indiana is "home" for him now that he isn't with Cassie. He has been back in Iowa the last few weeks.


Are those jumps recent? Those are some mighty fine 3Lz-3Ts. He could definitely have a singles career if pairs does not work out.
The video was likely within the last week or two, and he did some fabulous triple triples last night (I skate at a low level mall rink, so it was pretty funny, even when he just ran footwork with music the 20 or so skaters were all pressed against the boards watching. We aren't used to seeing that kind of skating. He would never ASK for us to do that, of course, and waited for everyone else to run a program before he did, very polite ice manners.)

I know plans change, but as of right now he has said he has no interest in returning to singles.

loopey
03-01-2012, 03:54 PM
I know plans change, but as of right now he has said he has no interest in returning to singles.
IMO, it would be a travesty if this young man can not find a quality partner. Those of us that follow pairs are always discussing how the US lacks male pair skaters and here is an example of someone that has interest, consistency, experience, and talent.

julieann
03-01-2012, 04:17 PM
IMO, it would be a travesty if this young man can not find a quality partner. Those of us that follow pairs are always discussing how the US lacks male pair skaters and here is an example of someone that has interest, consistency, experience, and talent.

I wonder why he doesn't have a partner? At least two high quality skaters are out there with no men to skate with (Caitlin Y. 6th at words and Maria M. 4th at worlds) So why is he having trouble?

Skittl1321
03-01-2012, 04:26 PM
I wonder why he doesn't have a partner? At least two high quality skaters are out there with no men to skate with (Caitlin Y. 6th at words and Maria M. 4th at worlds) So why is he having trouble?

Well, he only broke up with his partner like 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure it is yet "trouble" finding a partner, merely that it isn't easy to find a quality partner who is a strong match. If he just wanted a girl to skate with, I'd have no doubt he'd find one.


This is just my complete speculation, and not based on anything he personally said, but I'd guess he isn't wanting to return to singles because while he might do okay for himself, he'd probably end up like Jonathan Cassar- an amazing artistic skater (though he can jump really well... his 3A isn't consistent though) who is a minor fan favorite. He probably won't be going to the Olympics or World's. I'd guess he wants to find a pairs partner who he can achieve that goal with. (Honestly I think this is why Caitlyn doesn't have a partner either. If she just wanted a guy to lug her around the ice, there was probably one, who none of us have ever heard of, available- but she wanted someone she could be competitive with.)

Again, I have no first hand information- but I'd be shocked if he hasn't already or won't soon try out with Caitlyn.

julieann
03-01-2012, 04:41 PM
Well, he only broke up with his partner like 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure it is yet "trouble" finding a partner, merely that it isn't easy to find a quality partner who is a strong match. If he just wanted a girl to skate with, I'd have no doubt he'd find one.

Sorry, I was responding to it being a travesty if he can't find a quality partner and I should have said why would he have trouble.

He can have a try-out with at least two top women in the world if he he wants to. They may not be right for him but anything it worth a shot.

5Ali3
03-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Arranging try-outs isn't a process that happens overnight, and selecting a partner following try-outs also doesn't happen overnight. IMHO, the "marriage" analogy for pair relationships is overdone, but to borrow it for a second: immediately following a "divorce," even if both parties knew it was coming, there's a period of decompression. Even if one is ready to start "dating" again, it's not necessarily healthy to rush into a new "marriage" right away, as much as one might want to. At the end of a partnership, most skaters can list what they don't want in a new partner; if you ask what they do want, they'll tell you "the opposite of the thing that bothered me about my last partner." I understand that - like, I really, really, really understand that - but obviously "the opposite of my last partner on certain specific traits" is not necessarily what a skater really needs in a partner. A conscientious coach will slow down a skater who wants to jump into something new until the rawness of what went wrong in the previous partnership has passed.

(There are exceptions, of course, as there are to almost everything that I say [well, there really are a billion things that can go wrong on a twist, no exception there!], but as a generalization, the emotional reactions involved in the breakup of a pair team have a lot in common with the emotional reactions to the breakup of a long-term dating relationship: different people have different emotional reactions, of course, but the reactions tend to be slightly hyperbolic for a little while. Or in some cases, for a long while... :shuffle: Those emotions also don't happen in a vacuum; just as with many romantic breakups, the various people around the two skaters take sides: parents, occasionally coaches, other skaters within the rink, other skaters outside one's own rink. The :drama: can be pretty high. This is especially true with teenagers, who can combine typical teenage :drama: with the navel-gazing self-absorption that's really easy to develop in the skating bubble, for epic :drama:. Older skaters, in general, seem to have less :drama: involved in breakups, because they understand that this is a career and it's a business decision, unless there was a romantic relationship involved, in which case the :drama: can be legendary.)

So besides emotions, what delays try-outs?
- most teams don't "breakup" the day after Nationals, even if both skaters and the coaches know that the team is breaking up. Typically, coaches schedule an "end-of-season" meeting for a few weeks after Nationals; some coaches will meet with each skater and their parents individually to solicit their thoughts on future goals before having the team meeting. For a team not breaking up, the meeting can focus on recapping the season, setting goals for the upcoming season, addressing lingering tensions or outstanding concerns to clear the air and make sure everyone is on the same page. Often, but not always, the skaters are out of the rink between Nationals and this meeting: those living away from home and not enrolled in brick-and-mortar schooling go home; everyone needs to give their body a rest; skaters in school are often a little behind with work; coaches might take a few days off, etc. A relevant point here is that even a skater who comes home from Nationals knowing that his/her team is a goner doesn't necessarily know which other teams are definitely goners, even if you have a pretty good idea - so a skater who doesn't "need" to wait for his/her own team meeting to start scheduling tryouts might need to wait for other teams' team meetings to know who will be available, if that makes sense.

- Scheduling itself can be difficult. Tryouts usually, but not always, consist of several very intense days of skating with nearly *constant* coach involvement; for safety reasons, a newborn pair - even when both partners have extensive pair experience - need constant supervision and feedback; it's just too dangerous otherwise. So if we're talking about teenagers (which we usually are), the schedules of both skaters, including taking time off from school/work, some portion of both sets of parents, the schedules of the coaches, etc. all need to match.

- Given the distance of most pair training facilities from each other, airplane ticket prices can play a part too: it's a lot cheaper to schedule a tryout two weeks from now than tomorrow, for example.

- Speaking of scheduling, this is a busy time of year for many coaches. Just as an example, Sappenfield went from Nationals to 4CCs to Junior Worlds to Worlds. As far as I can tell, she might be SuperWoman because she seems to have an amazing ability to juggle multiple responsibilities (I kinda want a lesson from her - on how she manages to do it!), but even Sappenfield can't be in two places at once, so that complicates when skaters could go into the Springs for tryouts.

- There are also the negotiations of who-goes-where-for-tryouts-and-whose-coach-would-be-the-team-coach.

- There's kinda a hierarchy of who's-better-than-who that influences the tryout schedules and decision-making schedules of skaters who are not as high in the hierarchy. There's some game theory involved: everyone wants to maximize their partner on several variables (size, jumping ability, financial resources, coach, age, etc.), and as the whole dance is happening simultaneously, people are trying to maximize their own opportunities while not losing their second-best opportunity, if that makes any sense.

- JGP age-limits, combined with the "new" selection procedures for SGP, have complicated the game-theory-square-dance part of partner searches; so many of the girls looking for partners are JGP-eligible and hoping to find a boy who is also JGP-eligible, so you might wait for the boys who are age-eligible and might be appropriate matches to be "off the board" before making a decision on a non-age-eligible guy.

- It's not always this complicated, especially for skaters who are training in the same rink. For some reason, as I was writing this out, I was thinking about the most-complex scenario. The least-complex scenario can be as simple as, "Hey, wanna try skating together tomorrow? Okay, great. Let's ask Coach to make sure it's okay." Of course, the one time that I had personal involvement in a least-complex-scenario-teaming, it quickly turned into :drama: like I still can't believe: there's something to said for taking one's time and working through the process, even if it's not very enjoyable and most athletes are eager to get started on the new season as soon as possible. Every coach and every rink does the process differently - and even the same coach does things differently with different skaters and at different points in the skater's career and in the coach's career - but as I think about one of the single most painful episodes of my life, I encourage skaters and coaches to sit down and have honest conversations about goals, training habits, communication, etc., before the decisions are made to team. In retrospect, I'm not sure that anything could have made my best friend and I into a team that got along (we had entirely different philosophies about how to train, and by the time coaches stepped in, we had completely lost our trust in each other, and each little thing started to reinforce the lack of trust, and once the trust is gone and the daily snipping starts, it's really hard to reverse), but if expectations had been made clearer at start, it might at least have ended differently. Instead, I lost my best friend, my mom-away-from-home, and my "little sisters." All these years later, I still miss them.

Are you familiar with Robert Frost's "Fire and Ice"? Too many partnerships end on one side or the other of that. Of course, many end in détente, as well.
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.



This is just my complete speculation, and not based on anything he personally said, but I'd guess he isn't wanting to return to singles because while he might do okay for himself, he'd probably end up like Jonathan Cassar- an amazing artistic skater (though he can jump really well... his 3A isn't consistent though) who is a minor fan favorite. He probably won't be going to the Olympics or World's. I'd guess he wants to find a pairs partner who he can achieve that goal with.

I wonder if it's also possible that he just loves pairs and prefers pairs to singles. :) If someone had given me the choice between being an Olympic competitor in singles or a National competitor in pairs, I would have chosen pairs, no question. The athletes who compete at the Olympics report that they're an amazing experience, but they're also "just" another skating competition that happens every four years, and only two or three skaters/teams get to participate. If you don't love what you're doing six-eight hours a day, five-six days a week, and spending tens of thousands of dollars on... and if those don't get you, the physical pain/fatigue will!

This comment is not about LeDuc specifically and isn't intended as commentary on his skating or his personality in any way: I can't remember the last time that a tall boy with good jumping skills, at least decent pair skills, international experience, who was available in February and did not have a reputation as a Grade A Jerk, was unable to find a partner.

skatemommy
03-01-2012, 08:30 PM
^ post of the year! Well said!

Skittl1321
03-01-2012, 08:49 PM
This comment is not about LeDuc specifically and isn't intended as commentary on his skating or his personality in any way: I can't remember the last time that a tall boy with good jumping skills, at least decent pair skills, international experience, who was available in February and did not have a reputation as a Grade A Jerk, was unable to find a partner.

Well, I hope that means he has a great chance of finding one. It's nice to see an Iowa skater succeed, and while I've never seen him in intense training, his attitude on our club sessions tells me he is not even close to being a jerk!

I hope he, and Joshua Reagan, are able to find partners who match them well. I love pairs skating, so I want to see the US succeed!


I wonder if it's also possible that he just loves pairs and prefers pairs to singles.
Well yes, that too.

julieann
03-01-2012, 08:56 PM
whole post

Finding a partner can also be as easy as Tweeting them and asking to meet. :lol:

Not everything in this world has to be so complex.

kwanfan1818
03-01-2012, 09:11 PM
Probably not, but I would have said the same thing about ice dancing a decade ago.
Ice Dancing had the advantage of Zoueva/Shpilband who started training teams at an early age. It's not that Russian pairs coaches haven't moved to the US as trainers -- Rodnina and Naumov come to mind immediately -- or that there weren't talented Russian coaches in dance in the US before Z/S. I'm not sure what combination of circumstances made them so much more successful, but it hasn't translated into Pairs training, It's possible, like Morozov, that being world class competitors, but not being the most talented or at the top of the podium, has made them better coaches, not to mention their ability to train large groups of top athletes.

yfbg722
03-01-2012, 09:20 PM
Whole post


^ post of the year! Well said!

ITA and really appreciate the time and thought put into it.

shan
03-01-2012, 11:01 PM
Great post 5Ali3!!