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alilou
05-10-2011, 11:40 PM
But when you watch their Peruvian folk OD from last season you really don't think there's a reason to get excited for this team?
IMO They just have IT. Shibs might be a cleaner team at this moment, but when I watch I/K I can't help wondering how amazing they are going to be and the wonderful programs (hopefully) that they will be capable of performing in the coming years as they mature even more. The possibility is endless. I had the same feeling when I first saw V/M too (unfortunately they have not grown into the team that I've always wanted them to become, but that's another story). No one knows what will become of I/K, but the potential makes the fans excited nonetheless.

No I haven't seen their Peruvian folk OD, but I will certainly go and watch it. For me there have been only 2 teams that I've seen in their last yr of junior/1st yr of senior that I've gotten excited over - V&M and Shibs. I think both have "it" in spades. So now I&K come along and many many people seem to be very very excited about them, ubers even. Already. It puzzles me more than anything. That there's so much excitement about this team, and the almost knee-jerk dismissal of anything that comes out of the S&Z school.

As for V&M not growing into the team you wanted them to become - I think it's a question of time - for her to get fully past her injury, and for them to get past the need to skate to something "safe" for the Olympics. Why would they experiment in an Olympic season? Anyway that's another topic.

Ituriel
05-11-2011, 12:12 AM
You and I are the only two people who like Schnittke here and there is nothing to do but to accept this fact. :P




:) Third. And at last I can say it openly :lol:

Cloudy_Gumdrops
05-11-2011, 12:14 AM
:) Third. And at last I can say it openly :lol:

Add me to that list too.

bek
05-11-2011, 12:26 AM
I find the whole I/K are doomed if they don't stay with Zhulin to be a bit? There are plenty of great coaches in this world some who have had more success than Zhulin. It is good that he is pacing this team, but I think the Russian federation has every reason to be upset about this teams progress. T hey have been inconsistent all season long. There's a thin line between not burning out, and not working hard enough. At the very least they should have been more consistent this season.

dinakt
05-11-2011, 12:45 AM
:) Third. And at last I can say it openly :lol:

Me too ( I'd be 5th, so far)
Did not like Mao and Schnittke ( not the fault of either), but loved I/K's Schnittke- and in fact, loved their whole SD. It was refreshing after the safety of most SD's music choices.

Proustable
05-11-2011, 01:37 AM
There are definitely things I like about I/K. I love their speed and I actually prefer their twizzles (when on) to anything the Shpilband teams do. Their choreography has ideas in it. But that's pretty much where my admiration ends.

I don't see "it" that everyone else does (though I will say there I saw "something" in their performance at Euros). I don't see the "skating as one" that I love in dance nor do I see an interesting contrast that would make up for that.

millipied
05-11-2011, 01:42 AM
Can someone explain to me this "skating as one" nonsense? And who came up with that as a standard for ice dancing?

Cloudy_Gumdrops
05-11-2011, 02:19 AM
Can someone explain to me this "skating as one" nonsense? And who came up with that as a standard for ice dancing?

Far as I knew the whole '2 must skate as 1' thing, was a pairs ideal, not ice dance.

aliona22
05-11-2011, 02:24 AM
Can someone explain to me this "skating as one" nonsense? And who came up with that as a standard for ice dancing?

i don't know who came up with it but it's mentioned multiple times throughout the ISU criteria for PCS.

Skating Skills:
Pair Skating and Ice Dancing: Equal mastery of technique by both partners shown in unison.


Transitions/Linking FW:
Quality (including unison in Pair Skating and Ice Dancing)


Performance/Execution
Unison and “oneness” (Pair Skating and Ice Dancing)
Each skater contributes equally toward achieving all six of the performance criteria

Choreography:
Shared Responsibility of Purpose (Pair Skating, Ice Dancing, and Synchronized)
Each skater has equal roles in achieving the aesthetic pursuit of the composition with equal steps, movements, and a sense of purpose in unifying the composition

Interpretation:
Relationship between the partners reflecting the character of the music.
Interpretive unison is an equal partnership with the same degree of sensitivity between partners not only to the music, but also to the equal understanding of the music’s nuances. There is an intimacy between the partners that is characterized by a feeling of “surrender” to the music and possibly to each other that creates an entity greater than the two of them.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

zebobes
05-11-2011, 02:37 AM
I love I/K, but one thing that I've noticed is that they always seem to falter/mess up on the dance spins. Every time they change the position, you're always a little worried they can't coordinate their arms and legs into the right spots. When I watched their winning free dance to Schindler's Liszt and Junior World's, I thought it was a fluke, but they seem to have the same problem at every competition this year.

SamuraiK
05-11-2011, 02:43 AM
But when you watch their Peruvian folk OD from last season you really don't think there's a reason to get excited for this team?
.

As a Peruvian I have to say a big fat BLAH!! :rolleyes: to that program. There was nothing even remotely resembling of peruvian folk steps in "that" coreography, and their interpretation and choreo fell flat and childish to that beautiful sorrowful music. Plus I found their costumes almost as offensive as DomShabs aborigin OD.:rolleyes:

having said that, I&K are a marvelous team, specially her! and I do hope they medal at Sochi:kickass:

SkateSkates
05-11-2011, 03:07 AM
I love I/K, but one thing that I've noticed is that they always seem to falter/mess up on the dance spins. Every time they change the position, you're always a little worried they can't coordinate their arms and legs into the right spots. When I watched their winning free dance to Schindler's Liszt and Junior World's, I thought it was a fluke, but they seem to have the same problem at every competition this year.

I agree they always mess up at the same spot - when she goes and grabs for the haircutter. This is something that needs to be addressed, as it kills the otherwise good speed and centering of the spin. Also, there is one lift in their FD that they seem to have trouble with, so that should be modified/worked on as well. I do really like their speed and attack, they just need some refinement and better unison.

Ituriel
05-11-2011, 03:13 AM
As a Peruvian I have to say a big fat BLAH!! :rolleyes: to that program. There was nothing even remotely resembling of peruvian folk steps in "that" coreography, and their interpretation and choreo fell flat and childish to that beautiful sorrowful music. Plus I found their costumes almost as offensive as DomShabs aborigin OD.:rolleyes:

having said that, I&K are a marvelous team, specially her! and I do hope they medal at Sochi:kickass:

And THAT is objectivity:)

Japanfan
05-11-2011, 03:39 AM
So now I&K come along and many many people seem to be very very excited about them, ubers even. Already. It puzzles me more than anything. That there's so much excitement about this team, and the almost knee-jerk dismissal of anything that comes out of the S&Z school.


Perhaps the excitement has something to do with the search for the next stars of Russian dance. For years Russia dominated ice dance and had the runner up in place to ascend to the top position once the top team moved on. There were few but not a whole lot of exceptions to this process (A&P, while French, were acceptable in that at least half the team was Russian). For now, I&K look like the "next ones".

I'm not saying this to criticize Russians - Americans do the same with ladies skaters and Canadians to a certain extent with men. When a country has a tradition of excellence in a discipline, there is a sense of unease - a feeling that something is missing - when no skater or skaters carry it on. And hence the search goes on.

alilou
05-11-2011, 03:59 AM
As a Peruvian I have to say a big fat BLAH!! :rolleyes: to that program. There was nothing even remotely resembling of peruvian folk steps in "that" coreography, and their interpretation and choreo fell flat and childish to that beautiful sorrowful music. Plus I found their costumes almost as offensive as DomShabs aborigin OD.:rolleyes:

While I didn't find the costumes offensive I must say I pretty much agree with you re I&K's Peruvian OD - not Peruvian, and flat. While I was at it I watched Shibs and Paul&Islam's OD's - the top 3 at last yrs Junior worlds. Shibs were fun to watch, entertaining but sloppy, P&I did a good-enough-for-junior-team Flamenco. I remember being completely blow away by V&M when I saw them as juniors. I didn't really become a Shibs fan until this year after she grew. I'm captivated by their flow and lightness.

While there may be something to what you say Japanfan, I think many of I&K's fans are not Russian. They just see something that I (and others) don't see, not yet anyway.