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Allskate
05-08-2011, 05:09 PM
I think James will be hit with the same problem Casey was last year: the top 3 week will be intentionally stacked against him by the producers' song selections. That's exactly how Casey got screwed out of a spot in the final last year (Lee DeWyze's Hallelujah, anyone?). Haley is also gaining many fans and a lot more popular support than ever before.

Last year, it was clear that the producers/judges wanted Lee in the finale (even to win), but did not want Casey in the finale. And that didn't just start final three week. I've seen no indication from the judges/producers that they want James to go home any time before the finale. They've been incredibly supportive of him, not only with songs and production values, but over the top praise. I thought he had one of the worst performances of the group this past week, but you'd never know it from what the judges said. As long as Scotty is in the finale, I don't think they care a lot about the other person, though I think they'd prefer James and don't really want Haley in there.

BigB08822
05-08-2011, 06:37 PM
Jimmy Iovine has also been very catty with his comments to Haley and if you read between the lines he was basically telling her she isn't going to win but she needs to impress the people she works with so she may have some shot at a career after her soon to come exit. I don't think Idol wants to let her in the finale if they can help it.

taf2002
05-09-2011, 12:09 AM
I can't name a contestant that's finished in the top 2 and had been in the bottom 3 more times than the 3rd place finisher.

1st time for everything.


I don't think Idol wants to let her in the finale if they can help it.

I'm hoping they won't be able to help it.

rfisher
05-09-2011, 03:27 AM
1st time for everything.



I'm hoping they won't be able to help it.

I think they can do whatever they want.

Kruss
05-09-2011, 04:39 AM
I think they can do whatever they want.

Bingo!

They can, and they probably will.

taf2002
05-09-2011, 06:47 AM
I think they can do whatever they want.

Yes, sadly you're right. What I have trouble with is why. Why did they want Lee Dewyze to win for example? I can see them trying to manipulate things in a certain direction but I usually don't understand their choices.

BigB08822
05-09-2011, 06:52 AM
I don't believe they lie about the results. I do think they do whatever they can to get the voters to vote for whomever they want (song clearances and choices, production values, editing, etc), but once the voting is done I do think they stick to those results whether they like it or not. The truth is that a early shock elimination is GREAT for television and to get people tuning in to the show even if it means the person they wanted to win is out early. They still sign them and make an album and hope to make plenty of money off of them later by ruining their career. There really is no losing on this show no matter how the results play out. The riskiest time is probably now, though, when there are only 4 left. They don't want some freak occurrence to result in a really boring final 2. However, if 20 million people are watching and voting 60 million times then clearly a LOT of people wanted that "boring" final 2.

Aceon6
05-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Yes, sadly you're right. What I have trouble with is why. Why did they want Lee Dewyze to win for example? I can see them trying to manipulate things in a certain direction but I usually don't understand their choices.

$$$ and control. Lee could potentially be packaged to earn money upfront. Crystal's niche was perceived as not making as much up front. Fortunately for Crystal, she'll earn more in the long run without selling her soul.

taf2002
05-09-2011, 02:39 PM
$$$ and control. Lee could potentially be packaged to earn money upfront. Crystal's niche was perceived as not making as much up front. Fortunately for Crystal, she'll earn more in the long run without selling her soul.

I didn't see the potential. Who thought Lee would sell a lot of CDs? Everything I read here & elsewhere predicted just the kind of debut that he has had. Did anyone think he was going to make money for the Idol machine?

But you could sure see the manipulation to keep Casey out of the top 2. The way his homecoming was packaged & reported, you would have thought no one showed up to see him when nothing could have been farther from the truth. I live about 30 miles from him so I know the truth.

Aceon6
05-09-2011, 03:52 PM
I didn't see the potential. Who thought Lee would sell a lot of CDs? Everything I read here & elsewhere predicted just the kind of debut that he has had. Did anyone think he was going to make money for the Idol machine?

But you could sure see the manipulation to keep Casey out of the top 2. The way his homecoming was packaged & reported, you would have thought no one showed up to see him when nothing could have been farther from the truth. I live about 30 miles from him so I know the truth.

I think Casey, like Crystal, was already too far advanced to turn into a pop star. They want people who will walk into the studio and record whatever they're handed, not someone who knows enough to request specific song writers or arrangements. It's not just how many CDs they think they'll sell, it's the cost of producing them.

skatesindreams
05-09-2011, 04:40 PM
I think Casey, like Crystal, was already too far advanced to turn into a pop star. They want people who will walk into the studio and record whatever they're handed, not someone who knows enough to request specific song writers or arrangements. It's not just how many CDs they think they'll sell, it's the cost of producing them.

Ding! Ding1 Ding!

taf2002
05-09-2011, 05:41 PM
I think Casey, like Crystal, was already too far advanced to turn into a pop star. They want people who will walk into the studio and record whatever they're handed, not someone who knows enough to request specific song writers or arrangements. It's not just how many CDs they think they'll sell, it's the cost of producing them.

I think you're right but that only works if people buy that prepackaged dreck. I agree that Casey & Crystal were not the mallable type that Lee is. But the demographic voting for him is not the demographic that buys. He's worse than even Taylor Hicks is.

FTR, I think the 4 who are left this season have more chance of success than Lee. IMO Lauren is their best bet for someone who will do as she's told.

PrincessLeppard
05-09-2011, 05:44 PM
I think Casey, like Crystal, was already too far advanced to turn into a pop star. They want people who will walk into the studio and record whatever they're handed, not someone who knows enough to request specific song writers or arrangements. It's not just how many CDs they think they'll sell, it's the cost of producing them.

That would explain why they wanted Gokey to win so badly, then. Kris and Adam definitely knew who they were as artists. Unlike Mr. I Want to do a Salsa Album. :scream:

Aceon6
05-09-2011, 05:46 PM
FTR, I think the 4 who are left this season have more chance of success than Lee. IMO Lauren is their best bet for someone who will do as she's told.

Which explains her good critiques, even when she struggles. Everyone in the final 4 has some positives and some negatives. Watch Jimmy's words Wednesday night to see if he's still honest about Lauren, or if Nigel et al have sent him a memo to get with the program.

Cyn
05-10-2011, 06:52 AM
So I read that this week's theme is songs written by Lieber and Stoller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_and_Stoller), with Lady GaGa as a mentor? I don't know whether to :rofl: or :scream: . From the Wiki link:


Their first successes were as the writers of such crossover hit songs as "Hound Dog" and "Kansas City." Later in the 1950s, particularly through their work with The Coasters, they created a string of ground-breaking hits that are some of the most entertaining in rock and roll, by using the humorous vernacular of the teenagers sung in a style that was openly theatrical rather than personal, songs that include "Young Blood," "Searchin'," and "Yakety Yak."

They were the first to surround black music with elaborate production values, enhancing its emotional power with The Drifters in "There Goes My Baby" and influencing Phil Spector who worked with them on recordings of The Drifters and Ben E. King. Leiber and Stoller went into the record business and, focusing on the "girl group" sound, released some of the greatest classics of the Brill Building period.

They wrote hits including "Love Me," "Loving You," "Don't," "Jailhouse Rock," and "King Creole," among others for Elvis Presley.[3] They were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1985 and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1987.[4]

It seems that this theme week is tailor-made for Scotty McCreary (like he needs a boost :wall: ). At this point, I think the 4 remaining contestants should sing whatever TF they want to highlight their strengths, not limiting crap that has the potential to submarine someone (aka Haley).

Speaking of Scotty, I'd really like to see him break out of his heavy country repetitiveness, and venture out. There are several songs he could really do well with (and I say this as someone who, while respecting his vocal ability, I'm not a fan of country music in the least). I would love to see him (or even Haley) attempt my favorite REM song (though if they tanked it, I'd be scarred for life :fragile: ). I cannot find a studio version of it on youtube, but this is a version of it from the excellent documentary Athens, GA: Inside/Out, called Swan, Swan, Hummingbird (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_QG6tr9mjo). The album version (from Life's Rich Pageant - the last good album REM put out IMO), is a masterpiece, with minimal music that allows the vocals to be the highlighted instrument of the song.

When it comes to James, it will never happen in a thousand years, but he would absolutely kill (in a good way) the song I Want To Be Somebody (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjL5aBTmjUE) by W.A.S.P. (one of the most underrated metal bands of the 80's - Blackie Lawless' vocal talents are almost unmatched, and that song would be perfect, if only they could get clearance. Considering they were one of Tipper Gore's pet projects in her dumbass quest with the PMRC (?) due to their song Animal (aka Fcuk Like A Beast :rofl: ), somehow I don't think family-friendly AI would go for it. A shame, as the lyrics are very clean, and James could really rock it out.

Haley and Lauren are more difficult to figure out, though I think either of them (more likely Haley) could possibly pull off Sin Wagon by the Dixie Chicks (done previously by Amy Adams from Season Three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uzYtzsj8Ac&playnext=1&list=PLC2B103773B7D939F) - her best performance before she was eliminated. It was also done by Carrie Underwood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joBbFMrS8qI&feature=related) during that season's Top 4 week, where she demolished it - completely with excellent growling in the right spots. It's definitely out of Haley's usual wheelhouse, but I think she could do something interesting with it. Lauren is just a wee bit too young to be singing a song about "mattress dancing" :rofl: .