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HisWeirness
05-04-2011, 05:40 AM
Since it's too early for an official 2011-12 Grand Prix thread because the 2011-12 GP announcement has not been released already, I thought we could begin the GP assignments discussion here.

The ISU has already updated the World Rankings and Season bests through 2011 Worlds, but they have yet to remove the 2008-09 season points from the ISU World Standings.

The GP assignments should be announced a day or two after the ISU GP Selection Meeting. Last year (2010) the meeting was June 11-12 and the GP assignments were posted on the ISU website around 9am Central Euro time on June 13. Someone with the ISU meeting schedule should know when this meeting is scheduled for 2011. ;)

The ISU should post the "wiped" (i.e. with the 2008-09 season removed) ISU World Standings within a week or so. These wiped world standings are the ones historically used for GP assignments in the past.


Helpful Links:
2010-11 Grand Prix Thread (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73907)
ISU Grand Prix Webpage (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-136494-137802-nav-list,00.html)
2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1904) (contains assignment procedure)
ISU World Standings (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-202933-220156-nav-list,00.html)
ISU Seasons World Ranking (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-202932-220155-nav-list,00.html) (not historically used to determine GP assignments)
2010-11 Season Best Total Scores: Men (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2010-11/sbtsmto.htm) | Ladies (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2010-11/sbtslto.htm) | Pairs (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2010-11/sbtspto.htm) | Dance (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2010-11/sbtsdto.htm)

Discussion of 2011-12 Grand Prix competition sites and dates is here:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77157

There has been some discussion about changes to the assignment process for 2011-12. Some relevant posts from other threads:

I recently read in the German skating magazine that ISU will implement some major changes again. Guess we won't know the initial assignments before the end of July.


Singles - down to 10 entries each
Dance - down to 8 entries each
Pairs - remains at 8

Top 6 from worlds can do 3 events like in the past

minimum score will be implemented at 2/3 of the previous season top score ... example Pairs S/S currently first with 210.72 so minimum score would be 140.48

minimum score can be achieved in the previous season or at the autumn internationals like Nebelhorn Trophy

massive change to the substitution rules
the list is updated after each ISU senior event and published on the ISU homepage. if a skater or pair withdraws the first one in the ranking of the substitute list has to be invited. no more replacing with the lowest ranked skaters on the list. it has to be the number 1 on the list of substitutes.

at least thats what my magazine says


So for Men, if all events, not just GP count, is the minimum score really 2/3 of 280.08, Chan's total score at Worlds? Or is is 2/3 of his TES for the competition of 147.92? (I'm assuming his combined TES is the highest TES total; there's no easy way to look this up?) Or is the minimum score for the SP 2/3 of Chan's 51.48 (again assuming this was the highest) and for the FS, 2/3 of Kozuka's 98.53 (if this was the highest FS TES)?

If the latter, then the minimum TES score for Men would be 34.32, 34 if rounded, for the SP and 65.68, or 66 if rounded, for the FS, compared to 20 for the SP and 35 for the FS this season.

This should eliminate the need for any quali round... Only 18 of the Men who reached the FS met this score in the FS, and while some might have had higher scores in other competitions, the score is rather daunting, and must be achieved for Euros and 4C's, if there is one standard for championships. Also, they've reduced elements in some years and have re-calibrated the base values and GOEs, making it difficult to compare from year-to-year.

It would also make it interesting for various Nationals, where an otherwise qualifying skater would be skipped over for a skater who met the standard in the fall, a while before the skater was expected to peak for championships.


Top 12 finishers at Worlds (historically guaranteed 2 GP spots, top 6 are seeded)

Men: Chan, Kozuka, Gachinski, Brezina, Takahashi, Oda (seeded)
Amodio, Joubert, Dornbush, Fernandez, Miner, Verner

Ladies: Ando, Kim, Kostner, Leonova, Czisny, Asada (seeded)
Makarova, Murakami, Korpi, Gedevanishvili, Hecken, Flatt

Pairs: Sav/Szo, Vol/Tra, Pang/Tong, Kav/Smi, Baz/Lar, Yan/Cou (seeded)
Duh/Rad, M-T/Mos, Tak/Tran, Ber/Hot, Evo/Lad, Hau/Wen

Dance: Dav/Whi, Vir/Moir, Shibs, Pec/Bou, Wea/Poje, Bob/Sol (seeded)
Ili/Kat, Cap/Lan, Cho/Zue, Cro/Poi, Zhi/Gaz, Car/Jon

Top 3 at Junior Grand Prix Final and Jr. Worlds (historically guaranteed 1 spot)
JGPF
Men: Dornbush (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Yan, Rogozine
Ladies: Sotnikova, Tuktamisheva, Li
Pairs: Takahashi/Tran (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Stolbova/Klimov, Yu/Jin
Dance: Monko/Khaliavin, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin

Jr. Worlds
Men: Rogozine (* also JGPF), Tanaka, Majorov
Ladies: Sotnikova (* also JGPF), Tuktamisheva (* also JGPF), Zawadzki
Pairs: Sui/Han, Stolbova/Klimov (* also JGPF), Takahashi/Tran (* 2 spots from Worlds)
Dance: Monko/Khaliavin (* also JGPF), Pushkash/Guerreiro, Lichtman/Copely

Also, historically skaters with an ISU World Standing (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-202933-220156-nav-list,00.html) placement of 1-24 (after 2010-11 season) and skaters with season best scores in the top 24 (for 2010-11) who are not in the top 24 in the World Standings are guaranteed 1 event if they are not guaranteed spot(s) already from Worlds/JGPF/Jr. Worlds.

Hoping for some more rumors about the changes to the assignment process. :sekret: It's difficult to project with certainty which skaters will get assignments when the rules may change and several skaters are considering retirement or taking the fall season off.

HisWeirness
05-04-2011, 05:50 AM
Additional relevant posts from the Yu-Na GP thread:


Skaters will get on the substitute list based on the CURRENT season results. So Ladies who do very well on the B-International circuit, provided they meet the ridiculously high minimum scores, will be able to replace those who withdraw.

Considering that all of the better skaters (top 12 Worlds, tops SB and ISU Ranks) will already have received assignments, anyone replacing a seed isn't going to be much competition for the skaters already on the roster.

With the 2/3 of the top SB score, here are the minimum scores for the GP:

LADIES: 134.29 - top 49 on the SB list only (no Caroline ZHANG or Cheltzie LEE)
MEN: 187.41 - top 45 on the SB list only (no Paolo BACCHINI)
PAIRS: 145.31 - top 22 only (no MARLEY / BRUBAKER or KADLECOVA / BIDAR)
DANCE: 123.58 - top 37 only (no ORFORD / WILLIAMS, RALPH / HILL)

USFS could still assign M/B to Nebelhorn, and hope they score 146 or better. It's not unusual for judges at Senior Bs to give slightly inflated scores. Maybe Cheltzie Lee could do a Senior B and up her score by a few points.

Maybe Lee can't afford to do a Senior B just in the hope of qualifying for a GP. That's why I hope the ISU drops this idea of having a minimum GP qualifying score.

Ziggy
05-04-2011, 05:58 AM
Reposting my edited rant from the GP dates thread. This time with a bit less foam coming out of my mouth. :P

So according to what Sandra Persch has reported, not only will there be less spots, the top skaters will now be able to do one extra event, further taking away the opportunity from skaters lower down the rankings to gain very valuable competition experience.

Instead of promoting skating worldwide, ISU is turning it into a more and more exclusive sport.

Under the proposed 2/3 of season's best score minimum score for GP, Kadlecova/Bidar who are a very promising young team and have been giving good performances all season will not be eligible to compete at the GP.

What is the benefit of that exactly?

As Oleda said:

Is the ISU trying to kill the sport?

And consider how relatively overmarked the best performances usually are.

By that I mean: if the judges know that someone has clearly given a best performance, then they go overboard with the marks, especially the PCS.

Savchenko/Szolkowy, Chan and Davis/White all gave great performances at Worlds but judging an average skater against the marks they were given is just ridiculous.

And there are some Worlds where the winning performance is nothing special and some where it's clearly head and shoulders above the rest (the current Worlds are the second kind).

I hope that the proposed minimum score concerns GP entry only, because if it's for all ISU Competitions, then it's going to kill the sport.

The substitution change sounds great and definitely makes sense. It should enable skaters who performed well in the current season to get invited.

If that was in place this season, teams like Zhiganshina/Gazsi and Walden/Edwards could have had a chance (well depending on the minimum score). It will also create a further incentive for skaters to do B-Internationals.

I am very worried about the direction ISU is taking.

If I was an average level skater, the prospects of not being able to do the GP and taking part in humiliating Preliminary Round that won't even get broadcast anywhere would surely motivate me to sacrifice a huge part of my life and my health to daily, gruelling practices. :rolleyes:

Let's pray that the minimum score proposal doesn't pass.

sandra_persch
05-04-2011, 01:08 PM
The substitution change sounds great and definitely makes sense. It should enable skaters who performed well in the current season to get invited.



The German Federation has already published the announcement and forms for Nebelhorn Trophy. Its never been that early and makes me wonder if they are expecting huge numbers of entries

http://www.eislauf-union.de/NebelhornTrophy2011.html

The substitution rule should make a huge difference especially to skaters injured one season and coming back the next.


I am very worried about the direction ISU is taking.

If I was an average level skater, the prospects of not being able to do the GP and taking part in humiliating Preliminary Round that won't even get broadcast anywhere would surely motivate me to sacrifice a huge part of my life and my health to daily, gruelling practices. :rolleyes:


If I remember correctly the article said that the ISU was very disappointed with the level of skating in the SGP. But with the approach they are taking with the JGPs too there isnīt much there for skaters to develop on. often skaters from smaller federations learn soo much at international events but if ISU closes the door in their faces they can never experience what it is like to train with the best skaters live they do an Euros and Worlds.

Hereīs hoping that Cheltzie does the JGP in Australia if she canīt do a senior b abroad hoping for a SGP.
I really hope that they come up with something like .... if you qualified for the free skate you donīt need the minimum score of make the last finalists score the minimum score

One thing that I am still not sure about is, is if the minimum score requirement applies to the host countries too or not.

also doing the maths ... you got the top 6 doing 3 SGPs each gives you 3 at each SGP ... adding 3 host picks will in some cases get you down to 4 spots for other countries ... with the 6 hosts gifting one another the slots for their skaters other federations have to send their skaters to the Senior Bs to get them on top of the substitute list. hereīs hoping that USA, CAN, FRA, RUS, JPN and CHN donīt send too many skaters to the Senior Bs.

SamuraiK
05-04-2011, 03:13 PM
Why finally making a good rule about the way the subsitutes are chosen when at the same time you are reducing the spots and letting the seeded skaters take 3 events, its completely unnecesary now.

I wish figure skating had enough of a fan base worldwide for it to support a B World League, composed of all the main Senior B competitions, for all the "in development" skaters. The Grand Prix is surely taking the upper elitist approach, which is not a bad thing per se (It was always meant to be as a way of increasing the cash for the big six in the first place and a vehicle of getting more competitions and exposure for the big names) but it sure hurts lots of second tiers.

LilJen
05-04-2011, 04:10 PM
Odd that they're reverting to the 3-event format (ie, skaters can skate in 3 GPs, rather than 2). Just makes other skaters not have an opportunity to gain valuable international experience, and it potentially exhausts those skaters who skate 3 events (and costs a lot of $$, too!).

barbk
05-04-2011, 04:59 PM
Well, at least more incentive for the US and Canada to start offering some Senior B competitions; maybe we'll see some in Asia as well.

babayaga
05-04-2011, 06:27 PM
Odd that they're reverting to the 3-event format (ie, skaters can skate in 3 GPs, rather than 2). Just makes other skaters not have an opportunity to gain valuable international experience, and it potentially exhausts those skaters who skate 3 events (and costs a lot of $$, too!).

I will be curious to see who decides to skate in three events. I somehow don't see too many skaters doing it. It might be expensive, tiring, and disrupt preparation process.

BigB08822
05-04-2011, 08:05 PM
I would not want to skate 3 events if I didn't have to. The only reason to skate 3 events would be if you could count your best 2 and didn't have to designate which counted before the season began. However, doing that isn't fair and it will result in some skaters dropping out if they place well enough in their first two events to guarantee a spot in the GPF.

acraven
05-04-2011, 10:08 PM
I would not want to skate 3 events if I didn't have to. The only reason to skate 3 events would be if you could count your best 2 and didn't have to designate which counted before the season began. However, doing that isn't fair and it will result in some skaters dropping out if they place well enough in their first two events to guarantee a spot in the GPF.

There's also the matter of prize money...

babayaga
05-04-2011, 10:19 PM
There's also the matter of prize money...

How much is it, do you know? Just curious..

Sylvia
05-04-2011, 10:41 PM
For reference you can look up the prize money amounts (1st-5th place) published in last year's "2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement" (link posted in post #1).

A rumor (still unconfirmed) I heard during US Nationals is that the JGP Final medalists would not be guaranteed 1 GP like in the past.

Sedge
05-04-2011, 11:25 PM
If a seeded couple retires ( Yankowskas Coughlin) does the 7th place team ( Duhamel Radford) become seeded..or do they go with only 5 seeds?

babayaga
05-04-2011, 11:46 PM
For reference you can look up the prize money amounts (1st-5th place) published in last year's "2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement" (link posted in post #1).

A rumor (still unconfirmed) I heard during US Nationals is that the JGP Final medalists would not be guaranteed 1 GP like in the past.

Thank you!

Sayana_mnk
05-05-2011, 12:52 AM
If a seeded couple retires ( Yankowskas Coughlin) does the 7th place team ( Duhamel Radford) become seeded..or do they go with only 5 seeds?

If rules regarding seeded skaters are kept the same, then the 7th place team can become seeded only if there is no other team that has achieved a season's best score equal or greater to the top six teams at worlds. In this case, though, since there is no other team, Duhamel and Radford will now be seeded on the Grand Prix.