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Belinda
09-26-2011, 10:12 PM
I miss that period of her becaue that's when she had the best speed.
Last year when Mao decided to "correct" her jumps, she said she wanted to regain the level & quality of jumps she had when she was 15. This is a painful self analysis by a twenty-year-old who believes she peaked 5 years ago! However, techniques aside, I prefer Mao of today, in particular her ability to skate with a great heart. Her Jupiter performance reduced many people to tears, me included.

Ziggy
09-27-2011, 12:20 AM
I agree completely. I don't understand what it is with people thinking that non serious programs are always of lower artistic level than the serious ones, no matter how well they are choreographed and played. Especially in their 'Pink Panther' program S/S had great choreography, worthy of a good exhibition program, plus they were really into character, especially Aliona Savchenko.

That.


I don't think we should judge one's work by their other works.and,after all,Lori's programs for Mao and Kostner are good.

Lori's Mao programs are awful and lacking any kind of character. Typical Ladiezzzzzzzz snoozefest.

And Kostner's... I think it's more about Kostner being an extraordinary skater than for the programs she's got.

Jenna
09-27-2011, 12:30 AM
:)Lori can hit her slumps , and need a shake up , now and then...but this is so head and shoulders above the grim stuff V/T have been saddled with this year ( including costumes ).. and above what S/S had last year , it could make for an interesting World's.

( I say that as a V/T booster.)

IMO, V/T have a FS this year that is "masterpiece worthy" if they continue to improve. It's fantastic.

I wasn't a fan of the Pink Panther - too gimmicky and far below what they are capable of (i.e. Out of Africa)

The Zhangs appear to be two different skaters. They're no Shen/Zhao by any means, but there is clear improvement there. Good for them!

miki88
09-27-2011, 12:37 AM
Kostner, an extraordinary skater? I beg to differ. Sure, she has great basics, but that in itself does not make a great skater.

VarBar
09-27-2011, 12:48 AM
IMO, V/T have a FS this year that is "masterpiece worthy" if they continue to improve. It's fantastic.

Maybe they can improve the hideous dress she wears too. And the fact that she looks like anything but a swan, whether lines or movements.:slinkaway

Ziggy
09-27-2011, 12:52 AM
I wasn't a fan of the Pink Panther - too gimmicky and far below what they are capable of (i.e. Out of Africa)

Out of Africa was the least complex program they've ever had, at least in recent years.

You might personally not like the style of Pink Panther, but you can't deny that they moved to the music, they moved in character of the music and the way the elements were laid out on the ice and connected was original and much more complex than the usual counterclockwise stroke-jump-stroke pattern.


IMO, V/T have a FS this year that is "masterpiece worthy" if they continue to improve. It's fantastic.

It looks pretty but it essentially is the usual stroke-jump-stroke program with nothing interesting in it, other than some upper body choreography.

And that ridiculously long posing section is just :rolleyes: and they should get dinged on the PCS for it (same goes for Amodio last season).

To get high SS marks you are supposed to show mastery of a blade, one-footed skating and NOT standing on the ice on two feet for what altogether is 30 seconds (20 seconds of standing + 10 seconds of one person moving and the other standing IIRC).

Standing isn't a transition either.

I can understand standing for a couple of seconds at the beginning or when the mood/tempo of the music changes but Morozov really is taking the piss.


Kostner, an extraordinary skater? I beg to differ. Sure, she has great basics, but that in itself does not make a great skater.

Having the best basic skating in the world (as far as Ladies go) does qualify as being extraordinary in my book. ;)

She is very elegant too. Which means you can give her any kind of crap choreography and it will look decent enough because of her speed, flow, lines, etc.

kwanfan1818
09-27-2011, 01:07 AM
These programs of the Zhangs are the same old, same old stuff Lori's been doing for years. :shuffle:

At least the Zhangs aren't skating it the same old, same old way. I have to give them credit for that.

About S/S's programs, the one I wasn't happy with was the "Lost in Space" one, because they spent so much time so far apart. I have no problem with light programs; lightness and comedy can be so much more difficult to pull off.

Jenna
09-27-2011, 01:26 AM
Out of Africa was the least complex program they've ever had, at least in recent years.

You might personally not like the style of Pink Panther, but you can't deny that they moved to the music, they moved in character of the music and the way the elements were laid out on the ice and connected was original and much more complex than the usual counterclockwise stroke-jump-stroke pattern.

Yeah, they "moved to the music" but it just seemed cheesy and juvenile. The elements were fantastic as always, but the choreography, cutesy posing, and Aliona skating around in a little pink unitard made it seem more like an exhibition than a competitve piece. I just rewatched the program from Worlds though, and it was a fantastic performance. They solid it all the way, but I don't see how the choreography was anything complex. There is a lot of posing, as you criticize V/T for.

julieann
09-27-2011, 03:25 AM
Yeah, they "moved to the music" but it just seemed cheesy and juvenile. The elements were fantastic as always, but the choreography, cutesy posing, and Aliona skating around in a little pink unitard made it seem more like an exhibition than a competitve piece. I just rewatched the program from Worlds though, and it was a fantastic performance. They solid it all the way, but I don't see how the choreography was anything complex. There is a lot of posing, as you criticize V/T for.

I blame Ingo and his bad music cuts, they really didn't stand a chance in the posing department, they had no choice, the music cuts were that bad.

IceDanceFan1
09-27-2011, 03:26 PM
For those who don't already know, the new FDs of Zhiganshina/Gazsi, Hurtado/Diaz, Hubbell/Donohue, Tobias/Stagniuas, Ralph/Hill and more from the recent Nebelhorn Trophy are on the following YouTube channel. Just look for them in the list!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tatjana2541#p/u

Spartacus
09-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Brian's SP is AMAZING! So unusual! Love it!

miki88
09-27-2011, 03:44 PM
She is very elegant too. Which means you can give her any kind of crap choreography and it will look decent enough because of her speed, flow, lines, etc.

Different strokes. She is very fast but I always find her movements a bit awkward. ;)

ostile17
09-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Different strokes. She is very fast but I always find her movements a bit awkward. ;)

...and not elegant at all! :yikes:

jiggs
09-27-2011, 06:36 PM
...and not elegant at all! :yikes:

Seriously?? Have you watched her long program from last year?
It doesn't get more elegant than that!

casken
09-27-2011, 06:39 PM
For those who don't already know, the new FDs of Zhiganshina/Gazsi, Hurtado/Diaz, Hubbell/Donohue, Tobias/Stagniuas, Ralph/Hill and more from the recent Nebelhorn Trophy are on the following YouTube channel. Just look for them in the list!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tatjana2541#p/u

I *loved* the first half of Z&G's FD. They have nice lines and smooth skating, and that type of music and choreography really suits them. There's some really nice details in the footwork too, especially for him. I wasn't wild about the second half though. It all felt a bit heavy for them. I also couldn't stop thinking about F-P&M. :D

Hubbell&Donahue's FD was a mish mash of skating in hand to hand position and skating while grabbing onto the other person's shoulders/arms/waist. I actually thought it was a Shpilband program. Meh. It's one of those FDs where after a minute you know what the rest of the program is going to look like, so you're just waiting for it to be over. He also needs to bulk up a bit if they're are going to be serious.

Hurtado&Diaz were disappointing. They were hot last year, but now they're doing an old Abitbol and Bernadis program in earth tones and glitter? :blah:

I just felt embarrassed for Stagnuinus. I guess Shpilband is on a "extended OD as FD" kick now and has moved onto the 98 jive? :scream: I predict that program does not make it to worlds.

Since the Andreev experiment predictably didn't work out, can we get him and Khoklova together and with a good choreographer please?