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View Full Version : What does Richard Dornbush need to do to move into the top tier of men's skating?



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orbitz
05-01-2011, 08:23 PM
Hasn't Dornbush's SPs been sort of problematic for him this whole season while the LPs have been stellar? He needs to deliver solid SPs with no iffy jumps' landings.

Hedwig
05-01-2011, 08:29 PM
A Sochi team of him and Jason Brown plus Adam Rippon would be my wet dream. :inavoid:

blue_idealist
05-01-2011, 08:42 PM
I think he has good programs, skating skills and is consistent enough. He really needs a quad and I'm not sure if he does a 3A in combination with another triple yet. He's like a Patrick Chan of a few years ago - can he reach Chan's heights??

Pretty Vegas
05-01-2011, 08:43 PM
I think he has good programs and is consistent enough. He really needs a quad and I'm not sure if he does a 3A in combination with another triple yet.

He has a 3A/3T that seems to be very consistent, he was able to pull it off in the second half of his program at Worlds.

olympic
05-01-2011, 09:50 PM
Thanks to all.

If I was forced to pick a jump that might be oh-so-slightly weak for him, it might be the 3sal, but not by a lot. He has the whole reportoire of jumps with no danger of UR's.

So, I think if he could do a Quad, it would probably be a 4toe [maybe x2] not a 4sal, and as everyone says, the Quad will greatly help his cause.

Does he beat a revitalized Rippon on the Nats level [w/ a 3x]? How would you measure these 2 against one another?

Skittl1321
05-01-2011, 10:00 PM
If Rippon manages the quad lutz- I think he may be the future of the USA program. If he doesn't get a consistent quad, it's tough to say.

orbitz
05-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Does he beat a revitalized Rippon on the Nats level [w/ a 3x]? How would you measure these 2 against one another?

This is the first year that I've seen Dornbush skate. Dornbush's Sherlock Holmes program is way more interesting to watch than what Rippon has been putting out for the past few years. Putting these two head to head I would favor Dornbush to come out on top.

olympic
05-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Top 10 at World's doesn't put you in the top tier? Man, you're tough! How big is your tier?

..........

But in my mind, US Nationals podium, and top 10 at World's puts you in the top tier of skating.

Yeah. I get you. I meant by 'top tier' equal with top men like Oda, Kozuka, and possibly Chan. [Don't know yet how I feel about Gachinski]

pinky166
05-01-2011, 10:15 PM
I think Dornbush has a lot more going than those three. Mroz doesn't have great skating skills. Carriere never had the best triple axel technique. And Rippon is very inconsistent with triple axel, lacks power.

Obviously there's still time but I think technically Dornbush is a LOT stronger than those three.

I think so too. He has better jump technique and stronger nerves than the others, it would appear. He's also older than Rippon, Carriere, and Mroz were when people were hyping them, and I think that makes a difference.

I'd say all he needs now is a quad and more experience. I don't think he's going to be the next Chan or Kozuka or anything like that, but I do think he can enter the top echelon of men's skaters within the next few years.

jlai
05-01-2011, 10:30 PM
I think Dornbush has a lot more going than those three. Mroz doesn't have great skating skills. Carriere never had the best triple axel technique. And Rippon is very inconsistent with triple axel, lacks power.

Obviously there's still time but I think technically Dornbush is a LOT stronger than those three.

Each of the guys mentioned has (or had) something the others don't and it's not as if Dornbush is head and shoulders above the other potential contenders. Truth is I wouldn't have been surprised if Mroz or Adam ended up top ten at worlds ala Dornbush had those two been sent to worlds--that's because US actually has about 6 skaters who are capable of making top twelve at worlds like Dornbush. The only difference is that Dornbush did well at nationals to land the world spot while others didn't.

I'm bringing it up because last time we hyped Adam look at what happened to him.

bek
05-01-2011, 10:46 PM
Each of the guys mentioned has (or had) something the others don't and it's not as if Dornbush is head and shoulders above the other potential contenders. Truth is I wouldn't have been surprised if Mroz or Adam ended up top ten at worlds ala Dornbush had those two been sent to worlds--that's because US actually has about 6 skaters who are capable of making top twelve at worlds like Dornbush. The only difference is that Dornbush did well at nationals to land the world spot while others didn't.

I'm bringing it up because last time we hyped Adam look at what happened to him.

I was always not so sure about the Adam hype. When he won Jr worlds the first time he didn't have a triple axel-let along and quad. I frankly felt if he didn't have a triple axel by that age, would he ever have it. And its still inconsistent. And I wondered if he'd ever be competitive on the top stage. Because jumps are pretty important. Adam's a lovely skater, but technically I don't think he's ever been competitive with the top men.

Yes I agree that Mroz others could be top 10 too, but I still think Dornbush is better than them. I'm not exactly completely willing to write of Brandon yet, but Brandon is a bit inconsistent, and his skating skills aren't good enough. He also lacks pizaaz.

What I like about Dornbush is the technical skills are there. He has amazing jumps, great speed across the ice. And is starting to perform. He needs to improve his skating skills even more but I think the BASICS are there.

jlai
05-01-2011, 10:53 PM
Since world spots will be decided by mainly US nationals, Dornbush will need to place top 2 again at nationals (next time under higher expectations and pressure). Given there're only two spots for worlds next time I won't be surprised if yet another young skater surprisingly makes it.

That said great job to Dornbush at his first worlds. But he is still young and needs a longer senior track record before I can say much about him.

aftershocks
05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Continue to work hard, and continue to display consistency and perform to wonderful music and choreography that accentuates his strengths. I admire both Ross and Richard for how well they have carried themselves and for how well they performed under the pressure of their senior Worlds debut.

I wish not that it apparently seems so crucial for them to train quads. I hope they and their coaches will take their time and consider approaching quads with caution and strategically without harming their bodies and their careers. I say focus on improving skating skills, maintaining consistency and choosing the right music and choreography first. They and their teams seem to have done an excellent job so far, and I hope the USFS will not interfere in a bad, pushy way with the development of these two seemingly well-adjusted young men/ superb competitors.

olympic
05-01-2011, 11:37 PM
I wish not that it apparently seems so crucial for them to train quads. I hope they and their coaches will take their time and consider approaching quads with caution and strategically without harming their bodies and their careers. I say focus on improving skating skills, maintaining consistency and choosing the right music and choreography first. They and their teams seem to have done an excellent job so far, and I hope the USFS will not interfere in a bad, pushy way with the development of these two seemingly well-adjusted young men/ superb competitors.

I was thinking, like you, that I'd rather have Richard be on the cautious side at all costs, but if his technique is sound and he has good speed, I assume he probably would survive Quad training better than most. Plus, it sounds like per Tammy Gambill that he is training them anyway, and has a good track record in practice.

Besides, the Quad is going to be more crucial on the road to Sochi than it was on the way to Vancouver. In the LP this year, we saw several men do at least 1 Quad. We're seeing the 4sal from Brezina.

Re Rippon - There is something the Intl. judges love about him and that will always put him in good stead with the USFSA. I recall when he moved to Orser, the 3x became more consistent and Orser was being hailed as the coach of the year, then the 3x went away again but I noticedit happened while his general consistency declined overal, so it's something beyond bad technique. I'd like to know what really happened in the past year.

MikiAndoFan#1
05-01-2011, 11:50 PM
He just needs to keep doing what he is already doing.
His trip to Worlds will have come as a surprise even to him and he handled it magnificently.

I agree. Whatever Tammy Gambill is doing with him is working. I have to say, I was really impressed by Richard at Worlds, so I hope he and Tammy keep up the good work. :cheer2: