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Jammers
05-10-2011, 11:54 PM
If Ando Kostner and Alissa are favorites for gold in Sochi then ladies skating will have really stagnated over the next 3 years. Ando and Kostner have had 2 Olympics to try to win medals and folded each time.

julieann
05-11-2011, 12:07 AM
If Ando Kostner and Alissa are favorites for gold in Sochi then ladies skating will have really stagnated over the next 3 years. Ando and Kostner have had 2 Olympics to try to win medals and folded each time.

So they did bad at one Olympics (Miki 2 Olympics and Kostner 1) you are ready to write them off? After all they have accomplished at the rest of the competitions?

PS 5th at the Olympics isn't bad :shuffle: if all the skaters retired who did 5th or worse at he Olympics, there wouldn't be many skaters left. :rofl:

jlai
05-11-2011, 12:44 AM
Yesterday Castle was on TV and the girl in the show looked a little like Flatt.

And guess what, that girl in the story got an early acceptance to Stanford too. :)

mgobluegirl
05-11-2011, 02:30 AM
So they did bad at one Olympics (Miki 2 Olympics and Kostner 1)

For what it's worth, they've both skated at 2 Olympics already. Ando placed 15th in 2006 and 5th in 2010, while Kostner placed 9th in 2006 and 16th in 2010.

berthesghost
05-11-2011, 02:44 AM
If Ando Kostner and Alissa are favorites for gold in Sochi then ladies skating will have really stagnated over the next 3 years.I know right. Although, I'm not 100% sure Kim and Mao being co-favs the 2nd Olys in a row screams "progress!" either. Then again, if mens could survive Plushy being a fav 3 Olys in row, I guess anything can happen. :lol:

judgejudy27
05-11-2011, 04:56 AM
So they did bad at one Olympics (Miki 2 Olympics and Kostner 1) you are ready to write them off? After all they have accomplished at the rest of the competitions?

PS 5th at the Olympics isn't bad :shuffle: if all the skaters retired who did 5th or worse at he Olympics, there wouldn't be many skaters left. :rofl:

It is not like either skater had much chance to win a medal at either Olympics even if they had skated well, never mind getting even close to the gold medalists. Kostner barely beat a subpar Kwan for the 2005 Worlds bronze, and a subpar Slutskaya (bronze winner at 2006 Olympics) was alot harder to beat than a subpar Kwan by that point. And at the 2010 Worlds she skated very well and didnt medal, and the Olympics was a whole other level entirely.

Ando was even below Kostner in the pecking order around 2006 so even on she wasnt much threat. As for 2010, well given the standard of skating in the ladies event there she would have had to do her performances from the 2007 Worlds (still her best ever by far) just to possibly edge Rochette for the bronze.

So yes two skaters who in their primes were no threat at all for the Olympic Gold and only outside threats for the podium which they might not have reached even at their best, as contenders for gold by 2014, would speak to some real stagnation and weakness in the ladies event.

judgejudy27
05-11-2011, 05:01 AM
Hmm...as much as I would have liked Alyssa to medal...I'm fine with her placement. IMHO, Kostner was gifted that bronze medal.

Are you seriously suggesting Leonova was the one who deserved that bronze medal then. :lol: :yikes: I guess to each their own.

I wish Makarova had kept it together. I really think she would have been the Russian on the podium if she had.

victoriaheidi
05-13-2011, 05:42 AM
I know right. Although, I'm not 100% sure Kim and Mao being co-favs the 2nd Olys in a row screams "progress!" either. Then again, if mens could survive Plushy being a fav 3 Olys in row, I guess anything can happen. :lol:

But what about some of the other young skaters? Kanako, Agnes, the Russian wonderbabies...sure, the latter two have puberty to deal with, but I have to think that Mao/Yuna are on the way down and the four previously mentioned girls are on the way up.

olympic
05-13-2011, 12:28 PM
But what about some of the other young skaters? Kanako, Agnes, the Russian wonderbabies...sure, the latter two have puberty to deal with, but I have to think that Mao/Yuna are on the way down and the four previously mentioned girls are on the way up.

I know they are getting tons of hype, but after watching Junior Worlds, I think the Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva, while talented and having a bright future, I don't think they will impact the Sr. ranks the way Mao and YuNa did when they entered the Sr. ranks back in '06. Of course, they are going to be in the mix, though.

berthesghost
05-13-2011, 02:39 PM
But what about some of the other young skaters? Kanako, Agnes, the Russian wonderbabies...sure, the latter two have puberty to deal with, but I have to think that Mao/Yuna are on the way down and the four previously mentioned girls are on the way up.I disagree that Kim/Mao are downwardly mobile. Moscow was like 99 worlds to me. Kwan/Kim on a bad day is still better than most ladies on a good day. Maria/Miki walked thru the open door, but being at their best isn't enough, others have to falter too. Irina/Mao were MIA but don't count either of them out. Soldatova/Kostner were damn lucky, and probably both undeserving.

As for the Russian junior ladies going to dominate out of no where: Been there, heard that, bought the t-shirt. Where are Timoshenko and Ivanova again?

Jammers
05-13-2011, 05:09 PM
Exactly. Those Russian girls haven't even finished puberty by a long shot so lets see where they are 2 years from now before crowning then Olympic champions. :rolleyes:

Sparks
05-13-2011, 06:11 PM
It is not like either skater had much chance to win a medal at either Olympics even if they had skated well, never mind getting even close to the gold medalists. Kostner barely beat a subpar Kwan for the 2005 Worlds bronze, and a subpar Slutskaya (bronze winner at 2006 Olympics) was alot harder to beat than a subpar Kwan by that point. And at the 2010 Worlds she skated very well and didnt medal, and the Olympics was a whole other level entirely.

Ando was even below Kostner in the pecking order around 2006 so even on she wasnt much threat. As for 2010, well given the standard of skating in the ladies event there she would have had to do her performances from the 2007 Worlds (still her best ever by far) just to possibly edge Rochette for the bronze.

So yes two skaters who in their primes were no threat at all for the Olympic Gold and only outside threats for the podium which they might not have reached even at their best, as contenders for gold by 2014, would speak to some real stagnation and weakness in the ladies event.

I call BS. Ando did win Worlds in 2007 with a fine skate.
Pecking order? IMO, 2006 Olympics Ladies event was fairly wide open. Did anyone have all their money on Shizuka?

FSWer
05-13-2011, 09:02 PM
Actually, she could not skate if you look at both of her programs and placement. That's the whole problem.

She/her team had overestimated her ability to perform with this injury. This decision not only affected her own skating career but denied Mirai her rightful place as an alternate and very likely cost us the 3 spots.



Ok. What I'm asking here is...when a Skater get's hurt or doesn't feel well in any way. All the way around..in the end (except for maybe the case of a Dr. telling them to stay off-Ice. Unless THAT happened)...is it TOTALLY up to the Skater themselves (does the skater have the final say) to decide if they believe THEMSELVES that their well enough and capable enough to still skate (or) if the auternate needs to come in? Or does the Federation step-in on that?

mrinalini
05-13-2011, 09:41 PM
I know they are getting tons of hype, but after watching Junior Worlds, I think the Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva, while talented and having a bright future, I don't think they will impact the Sr. ranks the way Mao and YuNa did when they entered the Sr. ranks back in '06. Of course, they are going to be in the mix, though.

I feel the opposite way. Not so much that Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva will have the kind of rivalry and joint dominance that Mao and Kim shared, but that one of them will be especially dominant leading up to Sochi. The thing with the Russian babies is that even if one or some of them get felled by puberty, there should be at least one who will make it through because their field has depth at the moment. Also, let's not forget that the next Olympics will be in Sochi, and with the Chanflation that we saw leading up to Vancouver and similarly with Gachinski at this year's Worlds, I think it's likely that whoever is the anointed Russian girl will be generously propped up in scoring whenever possible.

leafygreens
05-13-2011, 10:53 PM
I call BS. Ando did win Worlds in 2007 with a fine skate.
Pecking order? IMO, 2006 Olympics Ladies event was fairly wide open. Did anyone have all their money on Shizuka?

I remember journalists had pegged Sasha for gold and I knew that had jinxed her. It was in her hands and poof! So yeah it was wide open if you expected Sasha to lose it like she always did at the "big ones" but if there was any favorite it was her.


Ok. What I'm asking here is...when a Skater get's hurt or doesn't feel well in any way. All the way around..in the end (except for maybe the case of a Dr. telling them to stay off-Ice. Unless THAT happened)...is it TOTALLY up to the Skater themselves (does the skater have the final say) to decide if they believe THEMSELVES that their well enough and capable enough to still skate (or) if the auternate needs to come in? Or does the Federation step-in on that?

Just thinking of the Oly gymnastics camp, but Marta would crush anyone's Oly dream for just a hint of an injury. It has happened to so many awesome gymnasts over the years and there's nothing they can do about it.