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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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AxelAnnie
05-10-2011, 01:48 AM
^ - couldn't agree more. I had seen the results, but just watched the competition. I had no idea that dang near everyone fell!

RD
05-10-2011, 07:27 AM
Even including the fall, Alissa was VERY undermarked at this WC.

So y'all think Czisny should have medaled, then?

CantALoop
05-10-2011, 09:30 AM
Quote from Phil Hersh Article:
"Zakrajsek: ``Rachael has been treated by Dr. (Bill) Moreau at the OTC (Olympic Training Center) in Colorado Springs this whole season."...Interesting that that medical authority the coach referenced is a Chiropractic, not an MD.


Since when do chiropractors treat fractures?

For some reason this reminds me of Tim Goebel in 2004 (http://new.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=179527). Not so much the end result, but rather the USFSA covering their arses with sketchy medical press releases.

skatemommy
05-10-2011, 03:15 PM
The scope of Chiropractic has only recently changed to include extremeties. But even synchro teams travelling internationally bring orthopedic doctors with them. What good is a strength and conditioning coach at Worlds? (agreeing with IceAlisa re: returning to form after resting an injury...)

berthesghost
05-10-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm having trouble with the "Miki is COP skater, Alissa is 6.0 skater" concept.

All of Alissa's strong points seem to be the non-jump elements, which seem to me to be rewarded more under COP. I have a hard time believing that 6.0 in it's final few years was much more than "add up the triples". How many times were close calls explained away as "Well, Kwan did 7 triples and Chen only 6, so..."? And are we seriously arguing that Hughes won SLC by the strength of her non-jump skating?

I also love how people claim COP invented things, just because they now show us their cheat sheets. Kristi and Kwan weren't throwing all of those 2nd 3z in the back half of their LPs because they got 0 bonus credit for it, and Scotty wasn't screeching "AND SHE LANDS A TRIPLE IN THE FINAL MOMENTS OF HER PROGRAM ON TIRED LEGS!" in our collective ears because judges didn't even notice jumps landed after the half way mark. People love COP because it's now in black and white what we've been told that judges judge on for years.

The one thing that MIKI had benefitted from most of all IMO, is the doing away with factored placements. A just OK SP and a just OK LP can once again win titles, and Miki is like Queen of the "dull and steady wins the race" school of skating.

judgejudy27
05-10-2011, 03:40 PM
Miki Ando benefits from her reputation which give her inflated scores in all areas especialy PCS. It is one thing to discuss how Ando and Czisny would stack up if both wore bags over their heads. She is also a much stronger jumper than Czisny, and her basic skating is better and she skates faster. Anyway Miki Ando would not be capable of winning a World title at this point, maybe not even a medal, in anything but a year of totally sucky skating which luckily for her we saw this year. Hopefully for the sake of skating fans this will be the last time in awhile we see such a low standard of ladies skating, which unfortunately for her would sink Czisny that much more even if she keeps skating well.

Ando also is no longer taking the next season off, and Kim again plans to skate at Worlds. There is nobody ahead of her likely to be gone, and while some people ahead of her are shakey (Kostner and Leonova) some who are behind her would be expected to move back ahead (Asada, a healthy Lepisto, maybe Makarova).

smarts1
05-10-2011, 07:14 PM
So y'all think Czisny should have medaled, then?

Yes. Leonova getting higher PCS than Czisny in the LP was pretty much the second biggest joke I have seen in ladies' skating. Czisny, Leonova, and Kostner all made one error each in their long programs, so it really came down to the PCS. Czisny should have scored 63-64+ for PCS at least (considering Kostner and Ando both got around that).

pinky166
05-10-2011, 07:36 PM
Yes. Leonova getting higher PCS than Czisny in the LP was pretty much the second biggest joke I have seen in ladies' skating. Czisny, Leonova, and Kostner all made one error each in their long programs, so it really came down to the PCS. Czisny should have scored 63-64+ for PCS at least (considering Kostner and Ando both got around that).

I'd have Czisny 4th and Leonova 5th, but Kostner still in 3rd. Carolina's FS wasn't flawless but it was gorgeous and the jumps she did land were stronger than those Alissa landed. Alissa looked cautious in both of her programs at Worlds which I think was reflected in her PCS.

I'm surprised so many people think Alissa is so much better than Miki though. I think she is a much better spinner and that's about it....in all other areas (jumps, speed, skating skills, consistency) Miki is better IMO. I get that Miki isn't the most beautiful skater out there, but I think it's good Alissa isn't winnning world titles just because she's a very pretty skater. It's still a sport and I absolutely believe Irina Slutskaya deserved to beat Sasha Cohen all the times she did in her career, because she was overall a much better skater than Sasha ever was. If Alissa wants to be judged solely on the beauty of her skating, she should have gone into ice dance.

Further, regarding Ando's PCS and questionable overmarking, she has come a long, LONG way since she first burst out on the scene. Remember what her spirals used to look like, how her packaging was a mess, how she was lumbering and awkward some 5 years ago? Well, she's now very elegant and controlled and I think she deserves to be rewarded for making those drastic improvements.

Iceman
05-10-2011, 08:27 PM
http://www.requiredelements.com/2011/5/6/2157016/rachael-flatt-leaves-broadmoor

A 2010 Olympian, Flatt, 18, will take a family vacation to Hawaii over the summer, work on her triple axel at the University of Delaware’s high performance center, participate in a freshman orientation at Stanford and look for a new coach in the Bay Area. Her parents have put their Springs home up for sale, with intentions of moving back to San Diego.

Flatt aims for a full load of courses in chemical engineering her initial quarter at Stanford, and she plans on competing in the Grand Prix series that runs from October to December. She also has circled the U.S. Championships in January in San Jose, Calif., a qualifier for the Four Continents Championships in February at World Arena and worlds in March in Nice, France. The next Winter Olympics are in February 2014 in Sochi, Russia.

Sylvia
05-10-2011, 08:32 PM
FYI, that excerpt was from a May 5th Colorado Springs Gazette article -- link was posted previously on page 13 of the Rachael's plans thread and discussed there: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72824&page=13

Iceman
05-10-2011, 08:36 PM
sorry, I hadn't been here for awhile and got exhausted just trying to make it through this thread.

Jenna
05-10-2011, 10:30 PM
Guess who was just nominated for "Coach of the Year." :P

berthesghost
05-10-2011, 11:01 PM
I'd have Czisny 4th and Leonova 5th, but Kostner still in 3rd. Carolina's FS wasn't flawless but it was gorgeous and the jumps she did land were stronger than those Alissa landed. Alissa looked cautious in both of her programs at Worlds which I think was reflected in her PCS.
I know this is just a knee jerk reaction, so take it for what it's worth, but IMO no lady who doesn't even attempt a 3z has no business being on any world podium past 1990. Seriously, was Kostner trying to compete agaisnt YuNa Kim, or Jill Trenary? :lol:

pinky166
05-10-2011, 11:04 PM
I know this is just a knee jerk reaction, so take it for what it's worth, but IMO no lady who doesn't even attempt a 3z has no business being on any world podium past 1990. Seriously, was Kostner trying to compete agaisnt YuNa Kim, or Jill Trenary? :lol:

Fair point, but I've just accepted the fact that when Carolina skates well (regardless of what kinds of jumps she is landing - so long as she lands them) she will be rewarded. I also think her rep as a two-time world medalist and two-time european champion helped her out here.

It's also worth noting that Yuna didn't do a 3lo and Miki didn't do a 3f and they both placed ahead of Carolina. At least 3lz is the hardest triple, the first and second place finishers left out easier triples than Carolina.

RD
05-10-2011, 11:46 PM
Yes. Leonova getting higher PCS than Czisny in the LP was pretty much the second biggest joke I have seen in ladies' skating. Czisny, Leonova, and Kostner all made one error each in their long programs, so it really came down to the PCS. Czisny should have scored 63-64+ for PCS at least (considering Kostner and Ando both got around that).

Hmm...as much as I would have liked Alyssa to medal...I'm fine with her placement. IMHO, Kostner was gifted that bronze medal.