View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !

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05-09-2011, 05:06 AM
Since when do chiropractors treat fractures?

05-09-2011, 05:30 AM
Could be that he was overseeing her conditioning, which he is qualified to do, given the "CSCS" in his title. That's a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. And the DACBSP part gives training to chiropractors in the field of sports medicine. So while he's probably a chiropractor first, he's qualified enough to diagnose and treat Rachael's condition... enough to be hired by the USOC.

05-09-2011, 05:48 AM
My question was really a snark pointing out that chiropractic scope of practice does not include the treatment of fractures.

Here's some information on the diagnosis and treatment of stress fractures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_fracture

05-09-2011, 06:35 AM
And even Czisny did not medal at Worlds and probably never will now (this year was her her best chance).

If Ando takes off next year as has been rumored AND Kim sits out as has also been rumored then 2 of the 4 people who finished in front of her here are out of the equation. Asada is clearly not a lock for a medal and will the Russians be able to repeat that showing out of their country? I am not saying it will happen but next year could be even BETTER for Czisny's medal chances. After that, however, I think it gets worse as the baby Russians will be coming in swarms and everyone will be gearing up in preparation for the Olympic season.

05-09-2011, 07:49 AM
Looking at it from a points standpoint, even if Alissa stood on the lutz, she'd only finish 3rd, a good deal back from 1st and 2nd place. Alissa had a great season but I honestly don't think she's WC material. Outside shot at bronze when she skates well is more like it as her 5th place this season with a few minor mistakes shows. She's a lovely skater but very few skaters have what it takes to be World Champion. I would like to see her make a Worlds podium before she retires, but if that happens I honestly think it would probably be a bronze in a somewhat weakened field and not a gold in a stacked one. JMPO.

She is more WC material than Ando IMO. She probably needs more consistent results and stronger push from USFS for her to contend, but she can.

05-09-2011, 07:51 AM
It must be reiterated, though, that there are several Americans who can also challenge Czisny, particularly if she reverts to one of her "Czisny moments" during the SP or FS. Especially with 2 spots, and up-and-comers on the horizon, a World berth is anything but guaranteed at this point.

Throw in the variables of injury, etc. and who knows.

05-09-2011, 10:22 AM
I'm basically a Flatt uber, but safety comes first, so I'm hoping that this becomes a full-scale investigation and leads to improvements in athlete monitoring.

I have to agree. A young athlete nursing a fracture for goodness sake should not risk permanent injury under any circumstances-and in this case on ICE no less.

Quote from Phil Hersh Article:
"Zakrajsek: ``Rachael has been treated by Dr. (Bill) Moreau at the OTC (Olympic Training Center) in Colorado Springs this whole season."

A quick look at the Medical Staff at the USOC:
Medical Director, Sports Medicine Clinics: Bill Moreau, DC, DACBSP, CSCS

Interesting that that medical authority the coach referenced is a Chiropractic, not an MD.

Furthermore, google "stress fracture tibia". Medical advise is pretty unanimous - stop high impact activity for 6-8 weeks.

Wow. What were Rachael's advisors thinking? :eek:

05-09-2011, 01:04 PM
Wow. What were Rachael's advisors thinking? :eek:

A number of things. None in the interest of Flatt's health though.

-- And the noble attempt at preserving all other interests they had in mind clearly backfired.

05-09-2011, 02:57 PM
She is more WC material than Ando IMO. She probably needs more consistent results and stronger push from USFS for her to contend, but she can.

I would have said the same thing about Miki pre 2006, but then she went on to win 2 world titles and a world bronze so she proved me wrong. And where she and Alissa are the same age (Miki actually 6 months younger) and Ando already has two titles and a bronze and Alissa's best result is a 5th place, it's more of a time issue than anything else. If Alissa had had this transformation 4 years ago, I could definitely see her eventually winning a world title or at least medal, but now she's in that age where injuries are hard to avoid and the chances of her getting a 3-3 seem slim to none, considering she never had a consistent one even when she was younger.

The other thing about Alissa is that I think she is more of a 6.0 skater. Miki OTOH is a COP skater and that's probably a big reason why she was able to win 2 world titles and another medal. Alissa's spins and spirals are far superior to Miki's, but Miki is COP trained and has learned how to get the levels she needs (and even some +GOE) to get the points needed to be competitive. At the same time, Miki's jumps are far superior to Alissa's, and is very comfortable back-loading her programs, and under COP that gives her a big advantage. I think pre-COP artistry, including spins, elegance, etc, counted for more, which would have allowed Alissa to shine and Miki probably wouldn't have gotten as far, whereas now it's all about the points. Miki's programs are much more meticulously put together than Alissa's to gain points between the backloading hard triples and two big combos, avoiding the 3f because it gives her trouble, doing spins that might not be the most asthetically pleasing because they get more points, etc. Alissa OTOH, puts her 3 lip in both programs, has less jumps in the 2nd half, her two big combos in the 1st half, no 3-3 or 2a-3t, etc.

05-09-2011, 04:42 PM
While Czisny may be a "6.0 skater", she has ABSOLUTELY benefited from the code of points in past competitions- when otherwise she likely would have placed much lower.

05-09-2011, 05:18 PM
[QUOTE=aftershocks;3174901] but there's no doubt USFS are fools in any case, no matter why they decided .019 differential not to send their most experienced international skater to Worlds.[QUOTE]

Absolutely the point! I just don't understand what they are thinking in that organization. Maybe the problem is there isn't any real strong leadership and vision.

Also USFS are also fools not to have closely monitored Rachel's fitness to compete and have Mirai ready to go on a moment's notice (or in Moscow). So incredibly frustrating as a fan who really loves this sport and wants the US to send their strongest teams to worlds. I think USFS needs to work toward developing the star power of their skaters and then perhaps skating popularity may return to some degree in the U.S. How about a plan instead of just letting the chips fall where they may at US Nationals and we continue to have 2 spots for mens and ladies.???

Come on Phil Hersh....go get'em! (where are you???):kickass:

Knowing the physical proximity of the arena where the Broadmoor skaters train to USFS, I suspect that the skaters who were in preparation for Worlds were being monitored, and that included Bradley, Y and C, and Flatt.....and probably keeping an eye on P Chan as well. ;) On another note, did USFS see the Y/C breakup coming?

05-09-2011, 06:50 PM
Since when do chiropractors treat fractures?

Well, you don't, but sometimes you do...

I have a fabulous Chiropractor, and a very high pain tolerance. Unless a bone is sticking through, I generally go to the chiropractor (after my horse goes one way....without me...which generally results with me on the ground).

Luckily the Chiropractor knows me well enough to say............UM....think you better see the Ortho guy.

I am very lucky to have a chiro who is so ethical...and smart. I have had a broken shoulder, and pelvic fracture. So, I can see starting there....and finding out you need to be somewhere else.

05-09-2011, 07:02 PM
Right, and I am sure that the ethical chiro at USFSA had done exactly that, referred Rachael to an orthopedist. Unless he didn't which would land him in trouble.

Just because he is certified in strength training and is their director, doesn't mean he is qualified to treat fractures. Strength training is useful in prevention and later stages of healing of the fracture, once the patient had the requisite month to 1.5 months of rest.

05-09-2011, 09:52 PM
While Czisny may be a "6.0 skater", she has ABSOLUTELY benefited from the code of points in past competitions- when otherwise she likely would have placed much lower.

True. But I was more trying to point out that Miki Ando thrives under the CoP system and likely would have placed much lower under 6.0. Her programs are so carefully constructed to milk out as many points as possible.

05-10-2011, 12:04 AM
She is more WC material than Ando IMO. She probably needs more consistent results and stronger push from USFS for her to contend, but she can.

Even including the fall, Alissa was VERY undermarked at this WC.