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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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Ziggy
05-08-2011, 02:55 AM
Can't believe I am saying that but hope that Hersh writes as much as he can on Flattgate. :P


I only have one complaint about Abbott, since otherwise I find him to be an amazing skater, great person, and a breath of fresh air:

And my complaint is this (assuming he skates well and makes no mistakes, of course): his SPs are always showstoppers, amazing pieces. Conversely, his LPs are very intellectual and introspective, and therefore hard to relate to for most people. Both have complex choreography, transitions, etc. But I think his LPs are just hard to grasp, and therefore he doesn't get the credit or attention that he could with the LP. I think if his LPs could be more upbeat (for lack of a better word right now) or at least had more of a crescendo at the end, he'd score better.

JMO.

Great point. He's quite introverted and isn't reaching out to the judges and audience enough.

fan
05-08-2011, 03:24 AM
Have you seen him skate recently or are you just saying this based on his performances at Nationals?

i watch rippon skate several times per week and he lands clean 3x almost everytime he tries one. now he just needs to land it in competition (different situation altogether)

bek
05-08-2011, 04:00 AM
ITA with much of what you said, bek, but there's no doubt USFS are fools in any case, no matter why they decided .019 differential not to send their most experienced international skater to Worlds. They gambled and lost. I think USFS underestimated how Ryan would not be perceived as a top contender despite his quads, and that all three U.S. men would be burned by skate order and the judges' political placements, especially in the case of Richard and Ross who both had done well on the junior/ senior GP circuits. Yes, Abbott has faltered in some big competitions, and he's also won some big competitions. Obviously, the scrutiny of the Olympic spotlight is significant in Abbott's reputation with national and international judges dropping precipitously. Abbott will need to repair his standing and how he is viewed with some out of the ballpark programs and consistent performances. Kinda funny how some skaters tho' can flub programs, and their standing in terms of reputation and judges' scoring never seems to go down that far: I'm thinking of Chan, Oda, and Lambiel.

I don't think you can say the USFSA lost yet. There's NO guarantee with Abbott on the team that they would get 3 spots. The benefits to sending Dornbush, Miner was to get them experience/exposure with the judges. While their PCS may not have been that high because they were unknown, their PCS may go up next year. Getting someone like Dornbush out there now is better than getting them out there later. They also need to see how their youngsters handle the pressure. Miner/Dornbush both skated well, given it was their first worlds.

I absolutely think Chan/Lambiel need to be punished more for their messy skate (don't think Oda gets held up as much when he bombs). But I don't think you can compare the two to Jeremy. Lambiel is a two time world champion, and nobody can argue Lambiel didn't earn those world titles (Olympic silver medalist) Chan has two world silver medals. Especially in Patrick's case the 2009 World silver medal was well earned.

Jeremy has yet to skate well enough to make a world podium, and so to compare him to guys who have is ridiculous. (Oda's a different case all together)

And as for Oda, Oda normally skates fairly well through most of the season, and mainly messes up at the biggest competition of the year. Two falls from Oda in a program-isn't normal, doing to many jumps is Oda's IMO. Oda based on his skating would have 2 world medals if it weren't for his inability to count. And well in the end, doing to much is different from falling all over the place, even if everyone wants to shake Oda.
The problem with Jeremy is he is inconsistent all season long. He may have a great competition at his first GP and then bomb the second one. And having two clean programs back to back, well that's maybe once a season.

And as for the US supporting Lyseck more-I have to say this of course they supported Evan more. But it wasn't always the case. One could argue that 2009 Nationals could have been given to Evan, I don't think Jeremy skated all that great in the long there. In 2009 the USFSA was absolutely willing to back Jeremy after his GPF win. And gave him the National title in a shaky skate) Jeremy then went on to bomb Four Continents, and Bomb Worlds. While Evan went on to medal at Four Continents, and win Worlds. Jeremy as a skater is absolutely better than Evan, but Evan was always the better competitor and proved that to USFSA. The USFSA would have to be fools not to want to support Evan.

I don't think its right to blame his great skate at Nationals, not getting USFSA support etc. The USFSA was perfectly willing to support Abbott, it was Abbott who didn't do his part. Part of being able to be a great skater is to deliver consistently-not once in awhile. And if your going to be inconsistent AT least deliver at the big moments. Plenty of skaters skate great at their Nationals and then go on to skate well at the Olympics. Even if they don't skate as well as they did at Nationals, they at least manage to stand up.

Triple Butz
05-08-2011, 04:14 AM
I haven't seen anyone argue about Dornbush's potential. He has been skating as a junior and his skating at nationals was certainly worthy of a world's berth. Ross Miner? Not so much. He got plenty of exposure with his not-so-noteworthy skates on the GP. Ryan Bradley? He's had several flops at worlds already and his best couldn't beat Abbott's worst internationally. He never should have lead after his short at nationals, and after his free skate, he should have dropped to at least sixth (or lower). Behind Dornbush, Abbott, Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh, and Miner.

Sylvia
05-08-2011, 04:19 AM
Friendly reminder that "olympic" has started a new thread in the Trash Can to discuss the U.S. men in the off season :): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78766

AxelAnnie
05-08-2011, 05:23 AM
Maybe my favorite program of hers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPQJSZtdbo&feature=related

:swoon:

Thanks. I forgot all about her. . . . Love her and loved that program

RD
05-08-2011, 08:02 AM
Czisny's comeback was nice but she is 23, not 26, and she is competing in what has turned into an abysmal ladies field all of a sudden which just saw Miki Ando win the World title with performances that wouldnt have won a World title in any year since 1990 or Olympic medal since 1992. Abbott would be starting a "comeback" at 26, an age nearly all skaters are retired from amateur skating, in an insane field that is led by Chan and now even Kozuka setting World record scores. And even Czisny did not medal at Worlds and probably never will now (this year was her her best chance).

I think IF she keeps the momentum and doesn't go down the roller-coaster again, she could have a decent shot next year, too. It will, however, get harder in 2013 once the Sochi hopefuls emerge fully.

Sasha'sSpins
05-08-2011, 08:04 AM
Friendly reminder that "olympic" has started a new thread in the Trash Can to discuss the U.S. men in the off season :): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78766

Thanks. :)

Back OT it will be interesting to see which way the officials go with this-will they indeed just sweep it under the rug-or will they follow through, and seek some answers from Tom and Co.

victoriaheidi
05-08-2011, 08:35 AM
Back OT it will be interesting to see which way the officials go with this-will they indeed just sweep it under the rug-or will they follow through, and seek some answers from Tom and Co.

I'm basically a Flatt uber, but safety comes first, so I'm hoping that this becomes a full-scale investigation and leads to improvements in athlete monitoring.

mtnskater
05-08-2011, 05:22 PM
[QUOTE=aftershocks;3174901] but there's no doubt USFS are fools in any case, no matter why they decided .019 differential not to send their most experienced international skater to Worlds.[QUOTE]

Absolutely the point! I just don't understand what they are thinking in that organization. Maybe the problem is there isn't any real strong leadership and vision.

Also USFS are also fools not to have closely monitored Rachel's fitness to compete and have Mirai ready to go on a moment's notice (or in Moscow). So incredibly frustrating as a fan who really loves this sport and wants the US to send their strongest teams to worlds. I think USFS needs to work toward developing the star power of their skaters and then perhaps skating popularity may return to some degree in the U.S. How about a plan instead of just letting the chips fall where they may at US Nationals and we continue to have 2 spots for mens and ladies.???

Come on Phil Hersh....go get'em! (where are you???):kickass:

IceAlisa
05-08-2011, 05:25 PM
The USFSA sure did teach a lesson to Mirai but in the process they also taught a lesson to themselves. I wonder who will learn from it.

Vagabond
05-08-2011, 06:05 PM
I'm basically a Flatt uber

:wideeyes: So they do exist!

I learn something new every day. :)

Marco
05-08-2011, 06:24 PM
I think IF she keeps the momentum and doesn't go down the roller-coaster again, she could have a decent shot next year, too. It will, however, get harder in 2013 once the Sochi hopefuls emerge fully.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think Czisny's biggest chance for a world medal or even title was this Worlds - 4 of the top 8 from Vancouver were not present at these worlds, and the 4 who were here skated not very strongly. Yuna and Asada were far from their best and the usual rocks, Ando and Flatt, both made mistakes. She had the momentum going into worlds with a GPF win over many of her main rivals here and a huge Nationals win. If she landed the 3lutz that she fell on and skated just a tad faster, I might even give her the title.

2012 Worlds might still be open since the top 2 Russian girls would still be too young, Asada might still be settling in her new technique or what not, and more veterans might retire / take breaks. She might actually face more competition at home than she would at Worlds.

pinky166
05-09-2011, 04:16 AM
With the benefit of hindsight, I think Czisny's biggest chance for a world medal or even title was this Worlds - 4 of the top 8 from Vancouver were not present at these worlds, and the 4 who were here skated not very strongly. Yuna and Asada were far from their best and the usual rocks, Ando and Flatt, both made mistakes. She had the momentum going into worlds with a GPF win over many of her main rivals here and a huge Nationals win. If she landed the 3lutz that she fell on and skated just a tad faster, I might even give her the title.

2012 Worlds might still be open since the top 2 Russian girls would still be too young, Asada might still be settling in her new technique or what not, and more veterans might retire / take breaks. She might actually face more competition at home than she would at Worlds.

Looking at it from a points standpoint, even if Alissa stood on the lutz, she'd only finish 3rd, a good deal back from 1st and 2nd place. Alissa had a great season but I honestly don't think she's WC material. Outside shot at bronze when she skates well is more like it as her 5th place this season with a few minor mistakes shows. She's a lovely skater but very few skaters have what it takes to be World Champion. I would like to see her make a Worlds podium before she retires, but if that happens I honestly think it would probably be a bronze in a somewhat weakened field and not a gold in a stacked one. JMPO.

Mom Knows Best
05-09-2011, 04:51 AM
Quote from Phil Hersh Article:
"Zakrajsek: ``Rachael has been treated by Dr. (Bill) Moreau at the OTC (Olympic Training Center) in Colorado Springs this whole season."

A quick look at the Medical Staff at the USOC:
Medical Director, Sports Medicine Clinics: Bill Moreau, DC, DACBSP, CSCS

Interesting that that medical authority the coach referenced is a Chiropractic, not an MD.

Furthermore, google "stress fracture tibia". Medical advise is pretty unanimous - stop high impact activity for 6-8 weeks.