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AxelAnnie
05-05-2011, 10:48 PM
I added them for you :)

danceronice
05-06-2011, 12:22 AM
What SLIVER said x 10,000! I've been saying this for years on end to deaf ears. Year after year after year USFS has been failing to consistently support and promote our best skaters on the international stage because they rely on fluke results at Nationals and pay no attention to the skaters international competitive record. As a result our world team continues to under perform at worlds. We loose spots and fans because we develop few stars. I am mystified at those who keep defending this practice too.

Uh, again, if we're going on Nationals being a fluke, leaving Abbot home was completely reasonable, as the last times they sent him to Worlds or Olympics, he choked each time. If he couldn't perform going as the US Champion, why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when he did worse? Why believe that this time would be different than the last, what, three?

Sylvia
05-06-2011, 12:33 AM
Why believe that this time would be different than the last, what, three?
Because every competition has the potential to bring different results? Case in point: Czisny's highest finish in her 3rd Worlds this year.

ETA: Abbott had his highest Worlds finish (5th) on his 3rd try last year while 2nd alternate Rippon was 6th in his Worlds debut.

BTW, I thought Dornbush and Miner did admirably well in their respective Worlds debuts this year.

nerdycool
05-06-2011, 12:39 AM
Uh, again, if we're going on Nationals being a fluke, leaving Abbot home was completely reasonable, as the last times they sent him to Worlds or Olympics, he choked each time. If he couldn't perform going as the US Champion, why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when he did worse? Why believe that this time would be different than the last, what, three?He finished 5th at Worlds last year, which I wouldn't consider choking, even in a post-Olympic depleted field. Yeah, his other appearances weren't up to par with what we know he can do, but he has competitions in which it has been shown that international judging panels appreciate him. The same cannot be said for Bradley.

Triple Butz
05-06-2011, 12:42 AM
Uh, again, if we're going on Nationals being a fluke, leaving Abbot home was completely reasonable, as the last times they sent him to Worlds or Olympics, he choked each time. If he couldn't perform going as the US Champion, why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when he did worse? Why believe that this time would be different than the last, what, three?

So finishing 5th and earning three spots for your country is choking? (Don't tell Alissa...)

:rolleyes:

stjeaskategym
05-06-2011, 12:44 AM
What SLIVER said x 10,000! I've been saying this for years on end to deaf ears. Year after year after year USFS has been failing to consistently support and promote our best skaters on the international stage because they rely on fluke results at Nationals and pay no attention to the skaters international competitive record. As a result our world team continues to under perform at worlds. We loose spots and fans because we develop few stars. I am mystified at those who keep defending this practice too.

Yes, yes, yes. EXACTLY. I've had a problem for a long time with the methods USFS uses to select major teams. To me, they seem okay with being okay, and they are too willing to do things that are a slap in the face to our top skaters who have proven themselves internationally.


Uh, again, if we're going on Nationals being a fluke, leaving Abbot home was completely reasonable, as the last times they sent him to Worlds or Olympics, he choked each time. If he couldn't perform going as the US Champion, why would they give him the benefit of the doubt when he did worse? Why believe that this time would be different than the last, what, three?

Abbott "choked" his way to a top 10 finish at the Olympics and top 5 finish at Worlds. On a bad day, he has been scoring higher internationally than Miner (who beat him by a measly .19 at Nationals) all year. I'd take my chances because if he had skated well, he most likely would have outscored all 3 of the American guys, no problem. Leaving Abbott home did not "punish" him, it punished the US team. What this has to do with Rachael Flatt's hurt leg, I have no idea. :lol:

Ziggy
05-06-2011, 02:12 AM
SLIVER: Amen!


We don't all agree that marking at all named Nationals is always ridiculous. One skater who won gold got higher scores than at their nationals.

Well yes, you should never say all. But scores for most of the skaters are much higher than at International events.

tangerine_dream
05-06-2011, 10:33 AM
And like the OP, I don't necessarily blame Flatt HERSELF for this- her team should have stepped in and not allowed her to go if she was injured enough to the point that it would significantly affect her performance.

Oh well...

I detest Flatt's skating- I think she's chubby, slow, clumsy, tacky, uninteresting, the list goes on.

BUT you have no right to "blame" Flatt for deciding to go injured. Just as her team had no right to tell her not to go.

Unless you are paying HER coaching/costume bills then you have absolutely no place to say she should have stayed home. You can't really think about "what is best for the team" when "the team" isn't paying YOUR 30,000 dollar a year training expenses. In countries where all of the training and other expenses are paid for, then yes, the federation should get to decide, because it's their money and thus their choice. But in the US, most of the training money comes out of the skater's pocket in one way or another, and therefore they have a right to decide whether they want to throw away 30k and a year's worth of training, or not. As for her team of coaches- they're her employees, she doesn't have to listen to them if she doesn't want to. They can choose to stop working with her as a result, but it still doesn't give them the right to decide what she should do- they got their 30 grand whether she skates or not so it isn't like it matters to them.

Cyn
05-06-2011, 12:46 PM
I've been saying this for years on end to deaf ears. Year after year after year USFS has been failing to consistently support and promote our best skaters on the international stage because they rely on fluke results at Nationals and pay no attention to the skaters international competitive record. As a result our world team continues to under perform at worlds. We loose spots and fans because we develop few stars. I am mystified at those who keep defending this practice too.

OT from the Rachael thing, I think the only reason Bradley received the ridiculous PCS scores is due to one thing and one thing only -- the Quad. Given how it now has a stronger effect on scoring, and he was the only skater (Morose Mroz) aside who was landing it in the higher-tiered competitors, they used that as an opportunity to inflate his marks to obscene levels.

Had Abbott included a quad in his programs, I have a fat honking feeling his marks would have shot up considerably.

kwanette
05-06-2011, 01:08 PM
OT from the Rachael thing, I think the only reason Bradley received the ridiculous PCS scores is due to one thing and one thing only -- the Quad. Given how it now has a stronger effect on scoring, and he was the only skater (Morose Mroz) aside who was landing it in the higher-tiered competitors, they used that as an opportunity to inflate his marks to obscene levels.

Had Abbott included a quad in his programs, I have a fat honking feeling his marks would have shot up considerably.

Agreed. I also think that the USFSA wasn't ready to give the title to Dornbush..Had, for example, Adam skated like Ricky did...sadly he didn't..the USFSA would have given him the title..

flutzilla1
05-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Yes, yes, yes. EXACTLY. I've had a problem for a long time with the methods USFS uses to select major teams. To me, they seem okay with being okay, and they are too willing to do things that are a slap in the face to our top skaters who have proven themselves internationally.



Abbott "choked" his way to a top 10 finish at the Olympics and top 5 finish at Worlds. On a bad day, he has been scoring higher internationally than Miner (who beat him by a measly .19 at Nationals) all year. I'd take my chances because if he had skated well, he most likely would have outscored all 3 of the American guys, no problem. Leaving Abbott home did not "punish" him, it punished the US team. What this has to do with Rachael Flatt's hurt leg, I have no idea. :lol:


This x a million. :respec: :cheer2:

olympic
05-06-2011, 02:34 PM
^ Maybe now that 4CCs is taking on more importance as an alternative Euros for non-Euro skaters, the USFSA will formulate a system in the future to pick a team that takes 4CCs into consideration. But, if that happens, it won't be for a long time. I'm sure. The US does change slowly in these situations.

SmallFairy
05-06-2011, 02:40 PM
I didn't see Bradley's skate at Nationals, only at worlds, and though he is a sweetie, that program was sooooooo slow!!! it appeared he was skating in syrup, I wanted to jump into my tv-screen and shake him! seriously... (and his music listing said "Amadeus" Mozart medley or something like that, and it started off with Bach, and later came Vivaldi...so I didn't quite got it...)

I do agree the two American youngsters did what they could, they can't be blamed for anything. I see promise in both, but they do need more personality, that little extra something.

Stephanie
05-06-2011, 03:15 PM
BUT you have no right to "blame" Flatt for deciding to go injured. Just as her team had no right to tell her not to go.

Unless you are paying HER coaching/costume bills then you have absolutely no place to say she should have stayed home. You can't really think about "what is best for the team" when "the team" isn't paying YOUR 30,000 dollar a year training expenses. In countries where all of the training and other expenses are paid for, then yes, the federation should get to decide, because it's their money and thus their choice. But in the US, most of the training money comes out of the skater's pocket in one way or another, and therefore they have a right to decide whether they want to throw away 30k and a year's worth of training, or not. As for her team of coaches- they're her employees, she doesn't have to listen to them if she doesn't want to. They can choose to stop working with her as a result, but it still doesn't give them the right to decide what she should do- they got their 30 grand whether she skates or not so it isn't like it matters to them.

USFS is the one who paid for her and her coach's trip to worlds, though, and they also fund her to a certain extent as an Envelope A member (although I'm sure she still has to pay for a lot, probably the majority, of her expenses herself).

If it's a competition like nationals, when it's personal results/experience at stake, than USFS has no say, but when USFS is paying to send its best two representatives to worlds, I think USFS should have a say in the event something major (ie a big injury like a stress fracture) impacts who those best two representatives may be.

SLIVER
05-06-2011, 03:20 PM
And I would like to add that the USFSA has probably damaged Abbott's rep abroad by making him miss Worlds. He is out of the judges consciousness, not seen as a contender all year. ISU were already not giving him massive marks because he is inconsistent, not coming to Worlds will not help for next year, unless he starts next season off with a complete bang and arrives in Nice with a string of strong results, his pcs will be impacted.