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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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Pikachuusb
05-03-2011, 10:03 PM
I hope there is a real investigation into this matter and not just lip service by the USFSA.

It is irresponsible by "team Flatt" to allow this to occur. Considering this is not the first instance(Bradley & Farris) this should really be addressed. Thats great and all that she may have wanted to compete. But the coach/parents/doctors etc should have had her physical condition and well being in mind.

Her obvious gifting at Nationals aside, if she wasnt well enough to compete before she left to Worlds, the alternate be it Nagasu, Zawadski or Gao should have gone in her place.

And this Frank joking thing, I highly doubt he was joking. I know for a fact that she has been working on 3 axles before she even went to Frank, so for him to say it flippantly isnt likely. He is no nonsense as we've all seen. Plus I could bet money he had her training and ready to go, just incase. He's shown that he has done that in the past, I dont see him acting differently now.

As for Mirai having a habit of folding when the pressure is on..even with mistakes repeatedly International judges have placed her above Rachael. Only the Nationals judges are willing to give Rachael the push.

I hope something is changed from this whole fiasco.

If Rachael chooses to continue skating, I hope she finds a coach who will look out for her best interests. I wish her much luck and success in school & beyond.

Im also hoping Alissa follows her trend of a strong mental state. I have always loved her skating and was impressed with her fortitude this year. I hope she and Mirai bring us back 3 spots for the following year. As this years worlds has ended, and its useless for me to complain about us not getting 3 spots. Its done, and my yelling and screaming wont change a thing.

As for the other matter at hand, I await the USFSA's response........

RD
05-03-2011, 10:22 PM
If Michelle had been thinking of the team she would have given it up earlier so the alternate could have been better prepared.

I'd argue that she wouldn't even have petitioned in the first place...

UGG
05-03-2011, 10:49 PM
I've overheard coaches bragging about how their competitors skated with broken bones. You would think the skater's long-term health would be important, but a lot of skaters and coaches live in the moment.

As far as giving up a spot for the team, I don't think most skaters see it as a team sport. Michelle held on to her spot at the Olympics until the very last minute which didn't do Emily Hughes much good.

What do u mean it did not do Emily any good? Emily had a really successful Olympics and did better than anyone expected her to. I think she also scored personal best marks IRRC. She was very very prepared. The only people infront of her were Shizuka, Sasha, Irina,, Fumie, (all world medalists) and Joannie and Kimmie. How much better could she have done? Maybe 6th instead of 7th but there is no way in hell she would have been placed ahead of the top 5 unless she skated like her sister did in 2002 and even then I bet she would not have landed on the podium.

AxelAnnie
05-03-2011, 10:58 PM
To be fair, Kwan kept her condition transparent and gave up her spot right away when she learnt of the diagnosis in Turino. (but then again she had already been to the Olympics twice, much like Flatt had been to Worlds twice...)

I know the natural tendency of humans (especially athletes) is to hope and try to "muscle through the pain" and do their best. IMO - both Michelle and Rachael knew they were way below par........and coulda, shoulda withdrawn sooner. Michelle at least was transparent, and had the grace to withdraw in time to allow her back up to get there.

Rachael OTOH.....geesh. So much was riding on the US getting two spots or three. What happened to "take one for the team" or "for the better good" or "team spirit".

I hope the "looking into this" brings some better oversight, and some stringent guidelines.

taf2002
05-03-2011, 11:21 PM
To be fair, if Michelle had skated at Nationals & had done a 2a/2t, 2a, 3t/2t, 3t, 3s/2t, 3s, she would have beat Emily for at least the bronze. Easily. And probably with even a few less jumps than that.

kwanette
05-03-2011, 11:21 PM
As far as giving up a spot for the team, I don't think most skaters see it as a team sport. Michelle held on to her spot at the Olympics until the very last minute which didn't do Emily Hughes much good.

The very last minute, no, not true. Besides Emily was going to Worlds as part of the "bye" and so she was training for that event.

Emily did fine at the Olympics..showed up prepared...her sister said so on Twitter yesterday.

agalisgv
05-03-2011, 11:32 PM
Any ban should be on the coach. It is the coach's responsibility to do the reporting. The skater shouldn't take the consequences. I just have to ask--why not the skater? It seems like people don't want to think of skaters as perhaps being culpable here, but I think back to Johnny Weir's revelations that he lied about injuries and illnesses in order to get out of competing/gaing a competitive edge. I don't see why a coach should be made responsible for that anymore than a coach should be responsible for a skater hiding an injury.

I'm not saying Rachel's coach didn't fully know in this case--clearly he did. But in a situation of a skater skating injured, the one person who knows this for sure is the skater. If the skater is an adult, I don't know why their coach should be subject to sanctions and not at all the skater. To do so IMO rather infantilizes adult skaters as somehow not being capable of making important life decisions and accepting the consequences of those decisions.

jmho

aliceanne
05-03-2011, 11:33 PM
I know the natural tendency of humans (especially athletes) is to hope and try to "muscle through the pain" and do their best. IMO - both Michelle and Rachael knew they were way below par........and coulda, shoulda withdrawn sooner. Michelle at least was transparent, and had the grace to withdraw in time to allow her back up to get there.

Rachael OTOH.....geesh. So much was riding on the US getting two spots or three. What happened to "take one for the team" or "for the better good" or "team spirit".

I hope the "looking into this" brings some better oversight, and some stringent guidelines.

I think most skaters go into denial when they get injured. I skate at a rink that occasionally produces elite compeititors and I've seen skaters train and compete with broken feet and concussions. They would never consider skipping a qualifying competition. Of course they don't place well and usually end up reinjuring themselves, but the alternative is facing the fact that their career might be over. The coaches and parents in these situations were enablers not voices of reason. I don't know if a skating federation would be any better.

Aceon6
05-04-2011, 12:30 AM
I think most skaters go into denial when they get injured. I skate at a rink that occasionally produces elite compeititors and I've seen skaters train and compete with broken feet and concussions. They would never consider skipping a qualifying competition. Of course they don't place well and usually end up reinjuring themselves, but the alternative is facing the fact that their career might be over. The coaches and parents in these situations were enablers not voices of reason. I don't know if a skating federation would be any better.

Knowing what we know now about concussions.... NO ONE should be allowed to skate with a concussion. I don't know if USFS is collecting data, but this would be a good place to start. All the other sports are participating in concussion studies.

PDilemma
05-04-2011, 12:44 AM
I just have to ask--why not the skater? It seems like people don't want to think of skaters as perhaps being culpable here, but I think back to Johnny Weir's revelations that he lied about injuries and illnesses in order to get out of competing/gaing a competitive edge. I don't see why a coach should be made responsible for that anymore than a coach should be responsible for a skater hiding an injury.

I'm not saying Rachel's coach didn't fully know in this case--clearly he did. But in a situation of a skater skating injured, the one person who knows this for sure is the skater. If the skater is an adult, I don't know why their coach should be subject to sanctions and not at all the skater. To do so IMO rather infantilizes adult skaters as somehow not being capable of making important life decisions and accepting the consequences of those decisions.

jmho

The post I was responding to questioned what the consequence should be for coaches not reporting a serious injury to the USFSA in a timely manner if some rule requiring reporting were to be instituted and brought up the word "ban". If a rule required coaches to report, coaches should face the consequence for not doing so--not the skaters. If USFSA specifically made a rule that skaters themselves should report it, then skaters should face the consequence. It is not "infantilizing" skaters to not hold them accountable for something required of coaches.

IceAlisa
05-04-2011, 01:28 AM
I just have to ask--why not the skater? *snip*

I agree. Rachael surely had a say in this, as did her parents. While the coach should and is questioned (I am sure), Rachael is going to have to give some answers to the Federation as well.

Aceon6
05-04-2011, 02:07 AM
I agree. Rachael surely had a say in this, as did her parents. While the coach should and is questioned (I am sure), Rachael is going to have to give some answers to the Federation as well.

Actually, Rachael is over 18 now. The contract is between her and Tom Z. Her parents can advise, but they're not responsible for decisions she makes.

FSWer
05-04-2011, 02:37 AM
I agree. Rachael surely had a say in this, as did her parents. While the coach should and is questioned (I am sure), Rachael is going to have to give some answers to the Federation as well.


Ok...I've been trying to follow this. But I'm not understanding fully what happened to Rachael. As this sounds more like here that she did something wrong. Can anyone please clear me up? Thanks.

IceAlisa
05-04-2011, 02:44 AM
Ok...I've been trying to follow this. But I'm not understanding fully what happened to Rachael. As this sounds more like here that she did something wrong. Can anyone please clear me up? Thanks.

From what I've been reading, Rachael has been in considerable pain for some time, some are speculating as far back as GPF.

She/her team says that on Friday, April 22 they found out that she has a stress fracture of the right tibia. Even though she was in quite a bit of pain and discomfort, she proceeded with the competition. And the result is widely known.

So we are here questioning the wisdom of a couple of things:

1. Not considering alerting the alternate, Mirai.
2. Not WD upon receiving the diagnosis.

agalisgv
05-04-2011, 03:08 AM
The post I was responding to questioned what the consequence should be for coaches not reporting a serious injury to the USFSA in a timely manner if some rule requiring reporting were to be instituted and brought up the word "ban". If a rule required coaches to report, coaches should face the consequence for not doing so--not the skaters. Sure--I was more responding to the tone of the thread which appeared to have many ascribing blame to coaches for allowing skaters to skate injured and not blaming the skaters themselves. This seemed to carry over to the notion of sanctions being targeted to coaches rather than skaters. So I was just challenging that impulse a bit as I could see coaches not being in the loop necessarily with some skaters, and ultimately it seems the skaters should be the ones doing the notifying since they know better than anyone what's going on.