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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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VIETgrlTerifa
05-03-2011, 05:38 PM
Granted, I adore Mirai, but this is why I don't think this rule would work. Rachael finishes one spot ahead of Mirai at Nationals; Mirai finishes one spot ahead of Rachael at 4CCs. So why should 4CCs suddenly serve as the tie-breaker? It smacks of arbitrariness, and I would bet the USFS (or at least its lawyers) prefers objectivity.

One argument could be that 4CC has an international judging panel and would be a better indicator as to which skater would fare better at Worlds.

PDilemma
05-03-2011, 05:52 PM
One argument could be that 4CC has an international judging panel and would be a better indicator as to which skater would fare better at Worlds.

And Mirai has always fared better with international panels. Her season high scores the last two years were from international panels at 4CCs this year and the Olympics last year. Rachael, on the other hand, has her season's best consistently at Nats with sometimes much lower results internationally.

aliceanne
05-03-2011, 05:58 PM
The principle is not about the 3 spots obviously.

If you're injured, step aside and let your healthy teammate replace you.

Not to mention that if I was a coach, I wouldn't let my skaters compete injured because their health is more important than short term results.

I've overheard coaches bragging about how their competitors skated with broken bones. You would think the skater's long-term health would be important, but a lot of skaters and coaches live in the moment.

As far as giving up a spot for the team, I don't think most skaters see it as a team sport. Michelle held on to her spot at the Olympics until the very last minute which didn't do Emily Hughes much good.

leafygreens
05-03-2011, 06:09 PM
I've overheard coaches bragging about how their competitors skated with broken bones. You would think the skater's long-term health would be important, but a lot of skaters and coaches live in the moment.

As far as giving up a spot for the team, I don't think most skaters see it as a team sport. Michelle held on to her spot at the Olympics until the very last minute which didn't do Emily Hughes much good.

The only reason it's not more of a team is because there's no one to kick them off the team - i.e. Marta Carolyi Inc.. While I don't agree with the gymnastics community's over-practicing of their athletes, they do keep a close eye on any kind of injury and are not afraid to make cuts. We have a situation with the 1st place nationals winner going on to worlds, such as gymnastics has the 1st and 2nd from trials go to the Olympics. But the rest of the team is not guaranteed. Everyone else should be monitored.

Marco
05-03-2011, 06:12 PM
One argument could be that 4CC has an international judging panel and would be a better indicator as to which skater would fare better at Worlds.

That's why I think a 4CC skate off would be a good thing if the top two / three skaters did not win their placements convincingly. For example, I don't think Czisny should be subject to a skate off with the performances she gave at Nationals. But Flatt and Nagasu were close overall and the international judges have always been more realistic about Flatt and appreciative of Nagasu. Same with Abbott and Miner. No international panel would award the same PCS differential between Miner and Abbott like the US panel did at Nationals.

Marco
05-03-2011, 06:14 PM
As far as giving up a spot for the team, I don't think most skaters see it as a team sport. Michelle held on to her spot at the Olympics until the very last minute which didn't do Emily Hughes much good.

To be fair, Kwan kept her condition transparent and gave up her spot right away when she learnt of the diagnosis in Turino. (but then again she had already been to the Olympics twice, much like Flatt had been to Worlds twice...)

RD
05-03-2011, 06:29 PM
To be fair, Kwan kept her condition transparent and gave up her spot right away when she learnt of the diagnosis in Turino. (but then again she had already been to the Olympics twice, much like Flatt had been to Worlds twice...)

But she still petitioned and made the trip to Torino...when perhaps it was getting increasingly unlikely she'd be able to hang on.

(That said, I do give her credit for pulling out when she did and allowing the alternate enough time to participate)

Aceon6
05-03-2011, 06:32 PM
To be fair, Kwan kept her condition transparent and gave up her spot right away when she learnt of the diagnosis in Turino. (but then again she had already been to the Olympics twice, much like Flatt had been to Worlds twice...)

That's probably what most of us are looking for, transparency. There is NO reason that a competitor should arrive at an event with a previously undisclosed injury. Even macho football forces coaches to give a roster status at regular intervals before each game - playing, likely, doubtful, and not playing. Of course, USFS leadership is still living in the 50s, so it might take them some time to realize that this is important.

ProgramerUSFS
05-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Philip Hersh tweeted a bit ago that US Fig Skating is gathering facts on the Flatt matter, and that they will not have any further comments until after the review process.

I sure hope they use this opertunity to draw a line in the sand about how hurt skaters are handled by coaches for these types of events. It is sad that all coaches don't understand what is right, but some don't. USFSA response to this issue will tell allot about their leadership and how the US will fair as a team in the future, I am sure.

Jarrett
05-03-2011, 06:34 PM
But she still petitioned and made the trip to Torino...when perhaps it was getting increasingly unlikely she'd be able to hang on.

(That said, I do give her credit for pulling out when she did and allowing the alternate enough time to participate)

Do you always point and counter point your own posts? I just find it a bit funny reading this thread and seeing you do it over and over again. :hat1:

Anyway, still waiting for some comment from the USFSA. Hope Rachel heals and wowowow triple axel and lutz/loop combo's from Mirai. Can't wait for next season. :cheer:

ProgramerUSFS
05-03-2011, 06:35 PM
Thanks Sylvia, that worked great.

Sylvia
05-03-2011, 06:48 PM
Noticed a typeo on my part.
FYI, you are allowed to edit your posts for 24 hours :) -- just click on the 'Edit' button on the bottom right of your post.


That's probably what most of us are looking for, transparency. There is NO reason that a competitor should arrive at an event with a previously undisclosed injury.
All the U.S. coaches and skaters are fully aware of the importance and necessity of notifying specific people at USFS if/when they are injured (there is a clear process in place), especially before an international competition. Of course it becomes a judgement call when a skater really wants to compete through/despite an injury (I would assume that most skaters would elect to do this if they could -- many have an extremely high tolerance for pain) and the coach feels they can still compete effectively enough (as Zakrajsek told Hersh). USFS cannot step in unless they are notified and, in this case, it appears they were unaware of Flatt's injury until she was actually at Worlds (too late for Nagasu to be summoned).

smarts1
05-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Do you always point and counter point your own posts? I just find it a bit funny reading this thread and seeing you do it over and over again. :hat1:

Anyway, still waiting for some comment from the USFSA. Hope Rachel heals and wowowow triple axel and lutz/loop combo's from Mirai. Can't wait for next season. :cheer:

I'm pretty sure the triple axel and lutz/loop thing was a joke... I think he was just trying to make a point about how ready she was as an alternate.

RD
05-03-2011, 07:16 PM
Do you always point and counter point your own posts? I just find it a bit funny reading this thread and seeing you do it over and over again. :hat1:


I suppose it's my posting style. Most of the time I'm trying to make a point, be fair to the situation, rather than attempting to "convince you to think my way".

skatemommy
05-03-2011, 07:19 PM
^ Frank doesn't play. Them's fightin' words. He was so mad at Mirai at Nats he probably scared her into landing them.