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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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reese
05-03-2011, 01:26 PM
The more I think about this, the more likely it is that Rachael is angry, too. Along the lines of "I defer college and what do I get? Overtrained, injured, pushed on to the ice, and ripped a new one in the skating media."

I never really understood this deferring for a year thing anyway. Why defer in the (relatively) unimportant post-Olympic year only to train with the exact same coach and choreographer, still living with her parents, doing everything exactly the same as when she was in middle school and high school? If she had gone straight to Stanford after the Olympic year she would have had one extra year (in relationship to the 2014 Olympic year) to get her training and time management stuff worked out. If she's really serious about training and competing at the elite level while at Stanford (and I'm not convinced she is) that would seem to have been a smarter move. As it is now, she's effectively lost a year. And now she's (hopefully) lost the bizarrely high regard USFS has had for her, her judgment, and her consistency.

leafygreens
05-03-2011, 01:51 PM
All I am saying is no one can guarantee that someone will place high enough to give the US three spots. Not even Frank who I have the highest respect for. Mirai has certainly been known to fold when the pressure is on.

Not true! She almost medaled at the Olympics, and won the SP at worlds. I think the USFS should have given Mirai and Rachael monitoring sessions that were judged. Whoever did the best got to go.

As someone else said all RF has are jumps. When that is gone, what else is left?

leafygreens
05-03-2011, 01:58 PM
Didn't Kwan train and fly to Lillehammer in 1994?

Yes she did! And Kimmie was sent to worlds in '05 to "observe." That's why I'm wondering why there's all this talk about needing visas. They must not be too hard to get. Mirai should have been waiting in the wings.

olympic
05-03-2011, 02:54 PM
the USFSA should really come up w/ an alternative system for selecting the Worlds / Olympic team.

Perhaps, they could implement a system where Nats scores are worth, say, 75% of a skater's score, but factor in an average of the skater's scores from ISU events in the Fall worth 25% [just throwing made-up percentages out there] to determine the Worlds / Olympic team. This could give a bump to skaters who maybe had a hiccup at Nats but are otherwise strong skaters internationally. In case of injured skaters debuting at Nats [it happens], their score at Nats would count as 100%. It may also encourage skaters to compete in the Fall.

OR

Select the team at Nats but in special circumstances where a top skater finishes barely in 4th, give them 'new life' and use 4CCs as a determining factor

smarts1
05-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Oh, my, this is getting wild. This isn't going to go away. I just hope cool heads prevail and the facts behind the situation can be made fully clear. Rachael should not end up vilified (or pay for) something that may have not been in her control; however, a lot of people in her camp have to answer some serious questions here, especially Tom Z. And Rachael will have to answer those questions, too.

Can't blame Frank for being PO'd. And geez, I wonder how Alissa has to feel, after all that work, and she rises like a phoenix and the US STILL doesn't get the 3 spots...

Well their roles reversed. At 2009 Worlds, Rachael landed in fifth place (the highest she would have gotten at the time considering there was like a 15 point different between fourth and fifth). And Alissa bombs the SP, placing herself eleventh after the competition.

At this year's Worlds, Alissa come into fifth place after two great programs, while Rachael bombs the long and lands in 12th. So bizarre. Who knew "the rock" would tank so quickly. She hasn't skated one clean LP this season.

mtnskater
05-03-2011, 04:07 PM
Mirai would have had to have finished 8th or better. The eighth place skater (Murakami) scored 167.10.

Mirai scored 146.23 at Cup of China to start the season, coming off of lost training time due to injury. After that, her scores were 167.79 (TEB), 177.26 (Nats) and 189.46 (4CC). That makes her season average right around 170, which would have been good enough for sixth place.

It is quite probable that a healthy well-trained Mirai could have scored high enough to finish 8th or better. Much more probable than an injured Rachael performing any better than she did.


This is the kind of analysis that USFS should do when selecting the world team. I'm still smoldering about the Flatt fiasco and USFS asleep at the wheel. Frank Carroll's comments about Mirai's readiness too are really adding fuel to the fire for me.

Sylvia
05-03-2011, 04:21 PM
ETA: Joshua Farris' Facebook page says he's healed, back on the ice, and jumping again. Thank goodness.

And like others have mentioned, looking for a new coach.
Joshua Farris' USFS/Icenetwork bio was updated last month with the names of his new coaches -- Christy Krall (primary) and Damon Allen (both are at the same rink in Colorado Springs, CO).

To clarify -- Farris' adductor (groin muscle) injury at US Nationals was diagnosed after an quad toe attempt at one of his official practices in Greensboro; the small fracture in his fibula (leg) bone occurred during his free skate and was only diagnosed afterwards (I believe that healed faster than his adductor injury).

kappa_1
05-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Yes she did! And Kimmie was sent to worlds in '05 to "observe." That's why I'm wondering why there's all this talk about needing visas. They must not be too hard to get. Mirai should have been waiting in the wings.

Anyone remember AP McDonough being denied a Russian visa in 02, missing Cup of Russia and missing a relatively easy qualification for the GPF that season?

Carolla5501
05-03-2011, 04:41 PM
Yes she did! And Kimmie was sent to worlds in '05 to "observe." That's why I'm wondering why there's all this talk about needing visas. They must not be too hard to get. Mirai should have been waiting in the wings.

Americans do not need visas for most European countries. I have traveled a lot in Europe and only needed one for Turkey

Russia is an exception. You must have one


And when the USFSA changes the system will this board be happy :lol:
Not likely. But it will be a lot more outrage when #2 or 3 gets passed over :2faced:

minignome
05-03-2011, 04:49 PM
the USFSA should really come up w/ an alternative system for selecting the Worlds / Olympic team.

Perhaps, they could implement a system where Nats scores are worth, say, 75% of a skater's score, but factor in an average of the skater's scores from ISU events in the Fall worth 25% [just throwing made-up percentages out there] to determine the Worlds / Olympic team. This could give a bump to skaters who maybe had a hiccup at Nats but are otherwise strong skaters internationally. In case of injured skaters debuting at Nats [it happens], their score at Nats would count as 100%. It may also encourage skaters to compete in the Fall.

OR

Select the team at Nats but in special circumstances where a top skater finishes barely in 4th, give them 'new life' and use 4CCs as a determining factor

Do you REALLY want a system that's even MORE open to political manipulation?

Personally I like the "give it all at Nationals or go home" approach. This is how it is done in other sports (swimming, track/field and they DO NOT have an injury exception -- if you don't compete at Nationals/trials you don't go to the Olympics). While I realize that figure skating is a judged sport so there is often controversy about who the 'true' winners are, I truly think that results particularly at Nationals should matter. There are no do overs at Worlds or Olympics, so the skaters need to learn to truly compete when it matters.

Marco
05-03-2011, 04:51 PM
The more I think about this, the more likely it is that Rachael is angry, too. Along the lines of "I defer college and what do I get? Overtrained, injured, pushed on to the ice, and ripped a new one in the skating media."

And will be hated forever by tempting SkateGod herself and skated to East of Eden.:shuffle:

Marco
05-03-2011, 04:53 PM
OR

Select the team at Nats but in special circumstances where a top skater finishes barely in 4th, give them 'new life' and use 4CCs as a determining factor

That way both Nagasu and Abbott would have made Worlds.

RD
05-03-2011, 05:00 PM
That way both Nagasu and Abbott would have made Worlds.

Umm....not necessarily. Remember that currently, 4CCs is a "non-pressure" event for these skaters. If it was turned into a "skate-off" event, that raises the stakes and there is no guarantee they would have skated the same (X-Factor).

I do agree, however, that 4CC should be used in cases of close scores. Heck, with 4CCs in the US next year, next season they could give it a shot and see what happens.

Cheylana
05-03-2011, 05:04 PM
OR

Select the team at Nats but in special circumstances where a top skater finishes barely in 4th, give them 'new life' and use 4CCs as a determining factor


That way both Nagasu and Abbott would have made Worlds.
Granted, I adore Mirai, but this is why I don't think this rule would work. Rachael finishes one spot ahead of Mirai at Nationals; Mirai finishes one spot ahead of Rachael at 4CCs. So why should 4CCs suddenly serve as the tie-breaker? It smacks of arbitrariness, and I would bet the USFS (or at least its lawyers) prefers objectivity.

leafygreens
05-03-2011, 05:12 PM
Granted, I adore Mirai, but this is why I don't think this rule would work. Rachael finishes one spot ahead of Mirai at Nationals; Mirai finishes one spot ahead of Rachael at 4CCs. So why should 4CCs suddenly serve as the tie-breaker? It smacks of arbitrariness, and I would bet the USFS (or at least its lawyers) prefers objectivity.

Because our skaters are always overmarked at nats. It's not really a level playing field to compare nats with 4CC's.