PDA

View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52

Marco
05-03-2011, 05:37 AM
Those reasons have nothing to do with placement, but everything to do with sportsmanship.

As well as being a team player.

I hope this finally puts him negatively in the eyes of the USFS. He isn't just a bad coach because he failed to improve the skating of his students, but more importantly also because he doesn't care about the well being of his students.

aftershocks
05-03-2011, 05:56 AM
As far as the ongoing controversy re Flatt's injury and performance at Worlds, as I previously mentioned: Flatt did not skate well enough at Nationals to be in second. Mirai faltered in the long, with a silly mistake and she was marked down. That was the perfect opportunity for Flatt to skate well and earn the second spot. She did not skate well in the long at Nationals (was that due to the injury problems she's reportedly had all season???), but was gifted with the second spot.

I think Frank's reaction and the marking down was enough for Mirai to learn a lesson. When Rachael did not skate well, the second spot should have gone to Mirai. Since Rachael was chosen (and surely everyone was aware she was struggling with an injury all season), USFS should have carefully monitored her condition, and without a doubt her team should have informed USFS when the injury flared again so close to Worlds. Was Flatt being overtrained in the lead-up to Worlds? It's selfish behavior by Flatt's entire team not to understand that if you have an injury situation, you shouldn't try to hide it and tough it out -- that's not heroic. What are first alternates for, after all. Okay, you want to compete, but it's still important to give all concerned a heads-up, so that the situation can be monitored and back-up plans put in place.

OT -- Here's a link to Joshua's lp skate at Nationals last year as a junior -- happier times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSKlicRSEd8

Ironically, no Tom Z or Becky C in the kiss n' cry with Joshua, as they were busy getting Max Aaron ready for his freeskate (Max had been first in the sp; Joshua was 4th in the sp, but ended up 2nd overall with a silver medal; Aaron ended up 3rd overall with the bronze, while Jason Brown pulled up from 2nd in the sp to 1st in the lp, winning the Junior National Men's Title). Hope Joshua lands with a good coach -- I know Frank works now with Denis Ten, and Jonathan Cassar, but would he have room for Joshua?

victoriaheidi
05-03-2011, 06:02 AM
The more I read/learn about this situation, the more I feel like this merits an investigation. Phil's not wrong here. Someone (maybe not the general public, but at least the federation) needs answers.

RD
05-03-2011, 06:09 AM
I think Frank's reaction and the marking down was enough for Mirai to learn a lesson. When Rachael did not skate well, the second spot should have gone to Mirai. Since Rachael was chosen (and surely everyone was aware she was struggling with an injury all season), USFS should have carefully monitored her condition, and without a doubt her team should have informed USFS when the injury flared again so close to Worlds. Was Flatt being overtrained in the lead-up to Worlds? It's selfish behavior by Flatt's entire team not to understand that if you have an injury situation, you shouldn't try to hide it and tough it out -- that's not heroic. What are first alternates for, after all. Okay, you want to compete, but it's still important to give all concerned a heads-up, so that the situation can be monitored and back-up plans put in place.

That's really the coach dropping the ball BIG time. I'm not sure, but is the skater herself ever directly involved with communications to USFS/alternates about injury situations? I figured that was mainly the job of the coach/agent/parents/trainer, etc.

ros01
05-03-2011, 06:10 AM
While emotionally I agree that it all feels unfair somehow, I think every athlete that has earned their spot has the right to compete injured and to accept the risks to their health. I might disagree, certainly, but what do I know about the pain and training and sacrifice that goes into that thought process?

(Of course, I recognize that many will say Flatt did not earn her spot, but she got the silver medal, and even if Nagasu was underscored, she opened the door for it. and yes, of course I hope that her coach did not put undue pressure on her to compete.)

Sasha'sSpins
05-03-2011, 07:02 AM
If it was Mirai who had skated injured & in severe pain, I'm pretty sure this would be a thread about how courageous she was to have gone out and done her best to compete and represent her country under extremely difficult circumstances. Instead, because it's Rachel, people are dumping all over her without even knowing all the facts. Mirai had her chance to qualify for Worlds and she blew it. Give it a rest.

At the 2006 Olympics you better believe I preferred Michelle over Emily any day of the week. But at the time I didn't think it was right for Michelle to deny Emily the chance to experience the whole of the Olympics-including the Opening Ceremonies. Michelle, thankfully had the grace to step aside in time to give Emily the chance to compete. If Rachael knew she was injured two weeks ago (and I doubt anyone but Rachael and her camp will know the full truth of the matter), and hurting-well, I wish she had had the grace to do the same, and step aside so Mirai, or one of the other two alternates could compete. Jmo.

alilou
05-03-2011, 07:08 AM
Hersh with some quotes from TomZ

Flatt's coach: Despite injury, she was able to do clean programs
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2011/05/coach-why-flatt-skated-at-worlds.html

IceAlisa
05-03-2011, 07:19 AM
OK, this says they found out on April 22 which was a week before. Is a week not long enough to WD and be replaced by Mirai, not long enough to get Mirai and team visas?


At the 2006 Olympics you better believe I preferred Michelle over Emily any day of the week. But at the time I didn't think it was right for Michelle to deny Emily the chance to experience the whole of the Olympics-including the Opening Ceremonies. Michelle, thankfully had the grace to step aside in time to give Emily the chance to compete. If Rachael knew she was injured two weeks ago (and I doubt anyone but Rachael and her camp will know the full truth of the matter), and hurting-well, I wish she had had the grace to do the same, and step aside so Mirai, or one of the other two alternates could compete. Jmo.
This. Although in case of MK and Emily, it was well known in advance that MK may not be able to compete having not skated the whole season and being a generally a question mark. So it was known that Emily had her bags packed. Mirai most likely had not a hint of Rachael's condition.

Marco
05-03-2011, 07:28 AM
As far as the ongoing controversy re Flatt's injury and performance at Worlds, as I previously mentioned: Flatt did not skate well enough at Nationals to be in second. Mirai faltered in the long, with a silly mistake and she was marked down. That was the perfect opportunity for Flatt to skate well and earn the second spot. She did not skate well in the long at Nationals (was that due to the injury problems she's reportedly had all season???), but was gifted with the second spot.

Any claim that Flatt wuzrobbed from 2007 to 2009 Nationals can now be silenced now that she wuzmajorlygifted at 2010 and 2011 Nationals.

Having said that, this is irrelevant to how Team Flatt should have acted prior to worlds. IMO they should have alerted USFS about her situation whether that world berth was earned or gifted. Instead we have Tom Z telling everyone the GPF disaster was a one off thing and Flatt was so ready etc...

skatfan
05-03-2011, 07:29 AM
Mirai most likely had not a hint of Rachael's condition.

Knowing Frank, he would have kept Mirai in full training mode, and ready to travel if needed. An opportunity to fill in at Worlds is not something he would tolerate her missing.

IceAlisa
05-03-2011, 07:30 AM
Knowing Frank, he would have kept Mirai in full training mode, and ready to travel if needed. An opportunity to fill in at Worlds is not something he would tolerate her missing.

Right, I meant that while she was likely trained well, she didn't know to pack her bags/get a visa unlike Emily in 2006.

Marco
05-03-2011, 07:33 AM
Didn't Kwan train and fly to Lillehammer in 1994?

Marco
05-03-2011, 07:36 AM
Hersh with some quotes from TomZ

Flatt's coach: Despite injury, she was able to do clean programs
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2011/05/coach-why-flatt-skated-at-worlds.html

So now they are trying to say she skated poorly because of nerves instead of because of her injury, but also that the foot was starting to bother her a week before they left for Moscow. So which is it? :rolleyes:

IceAlisa
05-03-2011, 07:36 AM
Didn't Kwan train and fly to Lillehammer in 1994?
Yes, I believe she was there.

agalisgv
05-03-2011, 07:42 AM
If Flatt's condition was apparent April 22, that was ample time for Mirai to get there. If Tom Z.'s response is merely that Rachel could do the elements of her programs, that's a very tepid defense to Rachel's abilities.