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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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dinakt
05-02-2011, 11:51 PM
All I am saying is no one can guarantee that someone will place high enough to give the US three spots. Not even Frank who I have the highest respect for. Mirai has certainly been known to fold when the pressure is on.

I don't see that as the main point though- of course no one can be absolutely sure how Mirai would have performed, not even Frank. The main point is that if an athlete is fighting a lingering injury, and the injury suddenly gets worse a week before the competition ( so much so that jumping well becomes impossible), then he/she should alert the first alternate that there is a chance the alternate would have to go on. It is the right thing to do. Athletes compete with injuries- Yagudin won in SLT with a completely deteriorated hip bone. I can't blame her for wanting to go on. But alerting Frank and Mirai, closely monitoring the situation and possibly stepping down when things got worse during the last week before the Worlds would have been better.

skatemommy
05-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Who ever thought Phil would do something useful other than bloviate?

Wow, I like your verb better than mine (pontificate)! Your's is so much more hip! :)

Jammers
05-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Even if Mirai skated only as well as she did at Nationals she still would probably finished in the top 8 and so 3 spots would have been secured.

RD
05-02-2011, 11:52 PM
National scores should not count (due to score inflation, etc.). At 4CC she did exceptionally well, but I'd take her TEB as a good average. 167.79 would have just BARELY eeked out 8th. So it's not so much of a done deal as some are saying.

Still though, I think Flatt should have WD if her team knew it was bad enough to slow her down.

Maximillian
05-02-2011, 11:58 PM
National scores should not count (due to score inflation, etc.). At 4CC she did exceptionally well, but I'd take her TEB as a good average. 167.79 would have just BARELY eeked out 8th. So it's not so much of a done deal as some are saying.

Still though, I think Flatt should have WD if her team knew it was bad enough to slow her down.

You have to take into account Worlds inflation as most skaters score higher there than they do the rest of the season. GP scores are usually lower than late in the season scores.

PDilemma
05-02-2011, 11:59 PM
Even if Mirai skated only as well as she did at Nationals she still would probably finished in the top 8 and so 3 spots would have been secured.

Her Nats score would have placed her sixth. Her 4CC score would have placed her third.

Taking away the inflation typical of Nats (though she didn't get gifted as much as Flatt, there), that same sort of performance probably would have landed her in the top 8 at Worlds. It was, as already said, scored over 177 at Nats. The score to beat for 8th place at Worlds was 167.10.

There's no comparison. "Average" Mirai beats injured Rachael.

Having glanced at their senior scores this season, averages from Agnes and Cristina do not place in the top 8, though, for what it's worth.

RD
05-03-2011, 12:16 AM
I just checked Nagasu's score from 2010 worlds, where she bombed the FS.

175.48

Well, well...I suppose that would have done it.

sk8ers
05-03-2011, 12:22 AM
Just re-watched Josh Farris from the link upthread---- I felt horrible for him then due to seeing Tom Z in action at the Springs and now I know that my perception and opinion of the man is completely justified!!! He's simply a self-absorbed A$$ . USFSA should take a very hard look at what has been going on AND what recently occurred at Worlds. Alissa was prepared and did her job and it was up to Team Flatt to do their part and give the US the best possible shot at regaining 3 spots. While I am sure Rachael wanted "1 last Worlds", sometimes an athlete and their handlers must make decisions for the "greater good". Sounds like this was one of those times!!!! Certainly not an easy decision for a competitive athlete but maybe the right one.

Triple Butz
05-03-2011, 02:29 AM
National scores should not count (due to score inflation, etc.). At 4CC she did exceptionally well, but I'd take her TEB as a good average. 167.79 would have just BARELY eeked out 8th. So it's not so much of a done deal as some are saying.

Still though, I think Flatt should have WD if her team knew it was bad enough to slow her down.

I think it's irrelevant whether or not one of the alternates would have produced a high enough finish to secure three spots. There are much more important things to consider here: first and foremost being Rachael's health. In addition to that, it makes the federation look bad if we are sending obviously injured athletes out on the ice to compete. Part of being a USA team member means doing what's best for the federation, and if you aren't able to compete at a highly competitive level without injuring yourself you owe it to your team to do what's right and let the healthy alternate compete. Those reasons have nothing to do with placement, but everything to do with sportsmanship.

Coco
05-03-2011, 03:12 AM
I don't think Tom's issues with yelling, controlling, encouraging / pushing skaters to work injured, I don't think they are a shock to those "in the know."

And USFSA just gave him an award, last year or this year. Not to mention that they give his skaters a nice push at Nationals.

Blech.

newbatgirl
05-03-2011, 03:53 AM
I don't think Tom's issues with yelling, controlling, encouraging / pushing skaters to work injured, I don't think they are a shock to those "in the know."

And USFSA just gave him an award, last year or this year. Not to mention that they give his skaters a nice push at Nationals.

Blech.

I seem to remember rumors about the environment of the rink at this time last season, or perhaps the season before? And I'm certainly not "in the know" but it must have leaked out to the regular fans.

Jenna
05-03-2011, 04:04 AM
Phil Hersh continues to add fuel to the fire by publishing an interview with Frank Carroll. Caroll was adamant that Nagasu was certainly ready for these Championships. He seemed angry that Flatt competed, and he has every right to be!

ETA: OK, lol, this seems to be old news. But I just read it..this is really getting heated! :watch:

BTW, :cheer2: for Farris leaving Tom Z. That performance is just :yikes:! One of the most painful skating programs I've ever watched. I hope he finds somebody that will bring the best out of him. He clearly has talent.

Marco
05-03-2011, 04:51 AM
I ALMOST had a sense that Tom didn't care for Flatt's well being for or after this comp because

1: this would well be a last shot for a student of his to be in world medal contention in quite some time

2: she is leaving him anyways / she is going to Stanford anyways / it's the last comp of the season, so it doesn't matter if her injury was aggravated

3: he could take credit if she helped regain the 3rd spot and blame it on injury if she failed to

I don't know all the facts, but judging from what is publicly known, my feeling is he is an incredibly selfish coach.

jlai
05-03-2011, 04:55 AM
When I first heard about her injury before the free skate I had a feeling she would have a meltdown and was doing the "I'm so nervous for Czisny thing" for Flatt instead right before she skated. :(

RD
05-03-2011, 04:58 AM
I think it's irrelevant whether or not one of the alternates would have produced a high enough finish to secure three spots. There are much more important things to consider here: first and foremost being Rachael's health. In addition to that, it makes the federation look bad if we are sending obviously injured athletes out on the ice to compete. Part of being a USA team member means doing what's best for the federation, and if you aren't able to compete at a highly competitive level without injuring yourself you owe it to your team to do what's right and let the healthy alternate compete. Those reasons have nothing to do with placement, but everything to do with sportsmanship.

Well said, I agree.